Match Day Thread General matchday thread.

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FosseFilberto said:
None of that solves the issue of sustainability undermined by poaching - we had 5 academy lads play against Ipswich last weekend - so the club are doing a lot right in that regard ... but the PL and EFL could and IMHO do more ...

.... and anybody arguing 'that's just the way it is' and 'always has been' should remember that PSR / FFP was brought in to counter practices that had 'always been' for the 'good of the game' and 'the sustainability of clubs' ...
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It’s the food chain, Fosse.

Sunderland have plucked players from league one and two, sometimes even further down. I’m pretty sure you’ll have done that at times, too.
 
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Chief said:
Will definitely need some excellent business.

Striker wise, for instance, we're immediately going down a notch to a prospect like Delap, as good as he clearly could be, rather than an "I demand champions league football" type, like Gyokores.
Who even himself is a very costly risk, given his goals have come in the Portuguese league and is a huge notch down from the PL quality wise. He was ok in the Championship, but again.............

Cunha looks a good swap for Mount and/or Garnacho. Mainoo needs to be given game time in midfield, Casemiro needs a long term replacement.

Shaw needs to go, we need a RWB. Perfectly ok at centre half.

Keeper needs replacing also, to be absolutely honest.

Whereas, if we'd got CL football, we could be looking to sign maybe five top players, it's now just three, and promote from within and get rid of some of those who are now just hanging around in corners stinking the place out.

I'd agree, up to a point, we're definitely no worse than eight. But I'd also say that realistically we're a good shout for top six next season, when you consider the likes of Forest are currently up there.

All those mid table teams like Palace, and Brentford, and Brighton etc. will always just hang around mid table, recycling players along the way. You're also adding European football to a couple of them, as will Forest and your lot also have to cope and deal with that, whereas we won't.

Be good to have a season off Europe and all the mid week games and travel.
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Gyokores wasn’t ‘ok’ in the Championship.

You could always see that he was levels above his opponents. The Championship was too easy for him.
 
FosseFilberto said:
Too much is made of players moving or not due to the prospect of playing in European football ... the lure of playing for 'Manchester United' at Old Trafford will, IMHO, far outweigh playing for any no hoper in CL, Europa etc next season - as such, I suspect you'll sign both and Delap too...
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I half agree. If Man Utd were top 5 this season then they could sign anyone they wanted, at the moment they rank a bit lower. If they go up against Liverpool, Arsenal or Man City for a player they'd struggle currently. I'd go a step further and suggest you should question the motivations of any player who signed for Man Utd over those 3 this Summer.

They should be able to sign a player ahead of Newcastle, have always been able to do so in the past and will be able to do so in future but it isn't just about league position and European football it's about what that represents. If you have a group of players who seem to be gelling and a management team who are settled it's easier to convince a player to come. It puts a huge bearing on the management of Man Utd to have to sell the dream to prospective players that things will be different when in normal circumstances they could just say "we're Man Utd" and that would be enough.
 
Saf said:
It’s the food chain, Fosse.

Sunderland have plucked players from league one and two, sometimes even further down. I’m pretty sure you’ll have done that at times, too.
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With Real Madrid at the top and the rest of us taking positions below (part of the reason Liverpool fans have got annoyed about the TAA situation)
 
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haslam said:
With Real Madrid at the top and the rest of us taking positions below (part of the reason Liverpool fans have got annoyed about the TAA situation)
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Absolutely. Madrid is the pinnacle, every player strives to get there. Every other club is a stepping stone to achieve that.
 
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haslam said:
I half agree. If Man Utd were top 5 this season then they could sign anyone they wanted, at the moment they rank a bit lower. If they go up against Liverpool, Arsenal or Man City for a player they'd struggle currently. I'd go a step further and suggest you should question the motivations of any player who signed for Man Utd over those 3 this Summer.

They should be able to sign a player ahead of Newcastle, have always been able to do so in the past and will be able to do so in future but it isn't just about league position and European football it's about what that represents. If you have a group of players who seem to be gelling and a management team who are settled it's easier to convince a player to come. It puts a huge bearing on the management of Man Utd to have to sell the dream to prospective players that things will be different when in normal circumstances they could just say "we're Man Utd" and that would be enough.
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'Motivation' mate? ... biggest single motivation for the majority of footballers, IMH(if somewhat cynical)O ...is money ... awful I know!...

When Benteke signed for Villa one of his entourage had to show him a map of the UK so he'd know where he would be playing ... he had no idea about the club or its history... but he understood the zeros behind the £ <laugh>
 
Saf said:
Gyokores wasn’t ‘ok’ in the Championship.

You could always see that he was levels above his opponents. The Championship was too easy for him.
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He was at Swansea and did nothing of note.

He was good at Coventry, but it still isn't premier league level, which is the point.
 
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Chief said:
He was at Swansea and did nothing of note.

He was good at Coventry, but it still isn't premier league level, which is the point.
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Yeah but he outperformed championship levels at Coventry. Whenever I seen him he always looked a level above. His record in European football is also outstanding.

I think he’ll easy handle the premier league.
 
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Maybe, but it's still a maybe.

Am I concerned that a player who wants champions league football will now prefer Arsenal over us and cost them £60 million in the process?

No, I'm not. We'd have to look somewhere else.

If he did sign though, great, I'm sure he'd do better than Hojlund.
 
FosseFilberto said:
It's a huge step up - just look at Nunolito at Liverpool...
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32 goals in 57 league games
11 goals in 19 European games

compared to Gyokores playing for a lesser team in Portugal.

68 goals in 66 league games
11 goals in 17 European games


Gyokores also passes the ‘eye test’ over Nunez. He’s clearly a better footballer with more to his game.
 
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I certainly don’t think Gyokores is some kind of superstar btw. I do like him though and think he’ll be a good premier league striker. Time will tell on this one.
 
Saf said:
It’s the food chain, Fosse.

Sunderland have plucked players from league one and two, sometimes even further down. I’m pretty sure you’ll have done that at times, too.
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...doesn't change my view ... and I would be more than happy to see appropriate measures apply to my own club ...

If any of it was really about natural order and 'food chains' we wouldn't have had FFP and PSR in the first place - a football food chain had been in existence since the start of the professional game - those spending the most won the most... it only changed in earnest when upstarts started to gatecrash the established hierarchy ...

How can the authorities pontificate about 'sustainability' without countering the pillaging of 'assets' of smaller clubs? ... cynical answer again is that it's something else that disproportionately favours the biggest clubs ...

Easy to fix - as is more fair and equitable PSR ... but such measures level the playing field - and that's not for everybody ..
 
Saf said:
32 goals in 57 league games
11 goals in 19 European games

compared to Gyokores playing for a lesser team in Portugal.

68 goals in 66 league games
11 goals in 17 European games


Gyokores also passes the ‘eye test’ over Nunez. He’s clearly a better footballer with more to his game.
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Stats don't tell everything- Nunez had a serious knee injury at Benfica ... but that's not really the point - it's undoubtedly a huge step from the Portugese League to the Prem - as Islam Slimani found out with us ...
 
FosseFilberto said:
Stats don't tell everything- Nunez had a serious knee injury at Benfica ... but that's not really the point - it's undoubtedly a huge step from the Portugese League to the Prem - as Islam Slimani found out with us ...
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Slimani 48 goals in 82 league games.

That’s the only time he was ever ‘prolific’ in his career. Terrible comparison.
 
FosseFilberto said:
Too much is made of players moving or not due to the prospect of playing in European football ... the lure of playing for 'Manchester United' at Old Trafford will, IMHO, far outweigh playing for any no hoper in CL, Europa etc next season - as such, I suspect you'll sign both and Delap too...
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I doubt there's much lure in Man U these days tbh, as well as having no Europe, new players ain't gonna be enticed by being part of the worst Man U team ever.
 
Charlie Dogscock said:
I doubt there's much lure in Man U these days tbh, as well as having no Europe, new players ain't gonna be enticed by being part of the worst Man U team ever.
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<laugh> ... be serious...

They are the most famous English club in the world and, like Real Madrid, are known in every corner of the globe ...

You must really dislike them ...
 
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FosseFilberto said:
<laugh> ... be serious...

They are the most famous English club in the world and, like Real Madrid, are known in every corner of the globe ...

You must really dislike them ...
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Well of course I do, but that's beside the point.

They ain't got anything like the pulling power of Real Madrid right now, and signings will reflect that.
 
Saf said:
Slimani 48 goals in 82 league games.

That’s the only time he was ever ‘prolific’ in his career. Terrible comparison.
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The only time Gyokores has been 'prolific' is whilst playing in the same league, for the same club, as Slimani...

'Terrible comparison' ? ... or actually just the most accurate?
 
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