Match Day Thread General matchday thread.

[Libby]

Not sure I agree - in a way you are devaluing the competition... first time we won it under Martin O'Neil we'd knocked the then domestically dominant United out in the Q/F ... that's far sweeter than winning a competition because the biggest and best teams aren't in it ... would also cite Birmingham winning it against Arsenal ... would it be the quite the same feeling if they'd plated the highest ranked PL team in the final and it was Brentford or Bournemouth?...

... but I get your drift...

I take your point but I really don't think it'd matter that much. Every smaller club dreams of winning at Wembley and who they beat in that final is secondary imo.

The flip side is would you be more excited by a Leicester v Saints QF if you knew the best teams remaining were Newcastle and Brighton and they were playing each other? Or would you be more excited if you knew the winner likely faces a two legged tie against a City/Arsenal/Liverpool?

Think people would prefer that to watching their second string away at a championship clubs second string Infront of a 4 figure crowd.

When Pompey won the FA Cup they played a championship club in both the semi and the final. Doubt they're arsed in the slightest.

 

[Big Ern]

wrong thread.

 

[Big Ern]

Said for years teams in Europe shouldn't compete in the league cup. Bulk of the tournament is done pre Christmas the same time as the European group stages so would help with congestion for those teams massively.

Not only that but the competition would be wide open meaning many clubs would take it more seriously as they'd have a genuine chance at winning it, in turn making it a much more exciting tournament.

Give the winners the conference league spot and you'd get a different winner every year too.

They could do what they did with the EFL trophy, the European teams play their U21s.

 

[Chief]

Not sure I agree - in a way you are devaluing the competition... first time we won it under Martin O'Neil we'd knocked the then domestically dominant United out in the Q/F ... that's far sweeter than winning a competition because the biggest and best teams aren't in it ... would also cite Birmingham winning it against Arsenal ... would it be the quite the same feeling if they'd played the highest ranked PL team in the final ...and that was Brentford or Bournemouth?...

... but I get your drift...

Like I said above, what they've done is a reasonable compromise.

That way, the clubs in Europe stay in the comp and it adds to the interest and, ultimately, prestige of it.

You take them out, all that dies a death anyway. To maintain it as a competition of value to win, with a full Wembley as the final venue etc., those clubs need to be in it.

They usually win it anyway, if you go back last 20 years only Swansea and Birmingham outside of 'the cartel' have won it, so those clubs are definitely still interested. Go back thirty if you like, and you're only adding Leicester and Boro to that.

 

[Chief]

Kick them all out the competition.. problem solved.

And the league cup dies and goes away.

If that's the problem then yeah, problem solved.

 

[Libby]

Like I said above, what they've done is a reasonable compromise.

That way, the clubs in Europe stay in the comp and it adds to the interest and, ultimately, prestige of it.

You take them out, all that dies a death anyway. To maintain it as a competition of value to win, with a full Wembley as the final venue etc., those clubs need to be in it.

They usually win it anyway, if you go back last 20 years only Swansea and Birmingham outside of 'the cartel' have won it, so those clubs are definitely still interested. Go back thirty if you like, and you're only adding Leicester and Boro to that.

Pretty sure there'd still be a full Wembley. Clubs aren't suddenly not going to sell their allocation for a cup final just cos Man United weren't in the competition.

We sold 48k tickets (and could have sold more) for a cup final in a competition which the top two tiers don't compete in.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Yeah it would attract audiences that want to see other clubs win thing but of course they don't want to sell that notion.

 

[Chief]

Pretty sure there'd still be a full Wembley. Clubs aren't suddenly not going to sell their allocation for a cup final just cos Man United weren't in the competition.

We sold 48k tickets (and could have sold more) for a cup final in a competition which the top two tiers don't compete in.

Yes, because it was a one off novelty. If you reached that final every year you think there would be the same interest?

It might well sell out for the first few years but it would just ultimately fizzle out, and the TV companies would lose interest as they wouldn't have the viewing figures.

 

[Chief]

Yeah it would attract audiences that want to see other clubs win thing but of course they don't want to sell that notion.

And you lot might even win it.

But probably not.

 

[Fox Mulder]

And you lot might even win it.

But probably not.

Exactly but I can honestly say otherwise enjoyed seeing West Ham win a trophy and seeing the big 6 clubs winning things has less and less value as the numbers increase.

I'm sure it's great for the fans of those clubs but without the other clubs they're nothing ... it works both ways.

I personally hope the last other clubs stop pandering to the big 6 and take them on.

 

[Libby]

Yes, because it was a one off novelty. If you reached that final every year you think there would be the same interest?

It might well sell out for the first few years but it would just ultimately fizzle out, and the TV companies would lose interest as they wouldn't have the viewing figures.

We wouldn't reach it every year though. The whole point is it'd be an open tournament and you'd get a larger spread of winners.

Also with my suggestion of giving the conference League spot to the winner then they wouldn't even be able to play in the competition the following year so by design you'd get a different winner every season.

The viewing figures are a good point though personally I've not watched any cup final for years but would if it was two smaller clubs as I'd find it more interesting. I don't think that's an uncommon view among fans of smaller clubs.

The other option is to remove all PL clubs, seeing as it's an EFL competition so would make sense if it was for their members. Though I wouldn't want that from a selfish point of view.

 

[remembercolinlee]

... but it is sweet when the cartel members lose out ... hasn't happened so much recently but might happen this season with Villa, Brighton, Newcastle and ... without wanting to jinx too much, yourselves ... all stronger again and capable of turning them over on any given day ... and as Coventry showed last season ... get to a semi-final ... and anything can happen then get robbed

Villa are in Europe this season

 

[Fox Mulder]

We wouldn't reach it every year though. The whole point is it'd be an open tournament and you'd get a larger spread of winners.

Also with my suggestion of giving the conference League spot to the winner then they wouldn't even be able to play in the competition the following year so by design you'd get a different winner every season.

The viewing figures are a good point though personally I've not watched any cup final for years but would if it was two smaller clubs as I'd find it more interesting. I don't think that's an uncommon view among fans of smaller clubs.

The other option is to remove all PL clubs, seeing as it's an EFL competition so would make sense if it was for their members. Though I wouldn't want that from a selfish point of view.

The big clubs fans don't believe anyone could possibly ever be interested in anything without them.

I'd like to test that notion over time.

 

[Gessa]

Ooh great - proper match report

And they'll be no bias towards the league 2 team, whatsoever

 

[Libby]

The big clubs fans don't believe anyone could possibly ever be interested in anything without them.

Yeah it's like when people say they'd like them to leave the domestic leagues for a ESL type competition and the answer is "but then the money will go with it!" as if that's a bad thing.

Pretty much every football fan agrees that there's too much money in the game but dare to suggest that it'd better without the big clubs and all of a sudden having lots of money in the league becomes an essential.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Yeah it's like when people say they'd like them to leave the domestic leagues for a ESL type competition and the answer is "but then the money will go with it!" as if that's a bad thing.

Pretty much every football fan agrees that there's too much money in the game but dare to suggest that it'd better without the big clubs and all of a sudden having lots of money in the league becomes an essential.

Imo people would enjoy watching the league without them.

 

[Chief]

The big clubs fans don't believe anyone could possibly ever be interested in anything without them.

I'd like to test that notion over time.

I don't think 'it's the big clubs', I'd say it is the telly clappy viewers and the TV companies themselves.

Fairly sure that the clubs you clearly don't think you need or contribute to it (you're wrong btw), would walk away from the league cup without a blink, to concentrate on European competitions.

The compromise was reached so they would stay. Because the league and the TV companies know fine well there would be less interest in their competition.

The reason I think United should stay in it (not arsed what the rest do), is because it's a competition that we've always competed for and is a good springboard for the rest of the season, it's a trophy under the belt.
City and Liverpool have won it even more than us, it's a great comp to be in but Europe is taking over.

 

[FadgewackeR]

It's a compromise.

The 'big' clubs would have just ended up pulling out of the competition if they'd played the first couple of rounds. It's not really much different to the FA cup proper, where premier league clubs etc. enter in round three.

It's better this for the league cup, than have it abandoned completely. It's a great competition that should be maintained.

What should happen is fewer European competitions but that's never going to happen.

What should have happened is that UEFA shouldn't have expanded the European competitions to the point where this was even a conversation.

A good alternative would have been to omit the European clubs from the LC, therefore a new winner more regularly and that club can have a European place on that specific merit.

 

[FadgewackeR]

To maintain it as a competition of value to win, with a full Wembley as the final venue etc., those clubs need to be in it..

Can't agree that we need the European teams in it to fill Wembley.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

What’s really ****ed it even more than the ever-longer group stage is moving Europey games to be on different weeks to the CL. Could have done it all on what’s now the Europey week otherwise.