Match Day Thread General matchday thread.

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Welshie said:
Basically yeah, exact same point I made about Liverpool and got snide remarks back for.

Shifting debts to the owners company that will need to be bought out if the club is sold or might be recalled if the holding company falls apart.

Only the truly rich owners can make this investment thing work, City for example, who are now profitable with no debt.
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probably cos you were chatting **** .
At no point have FSG ever written off money they have loaned the club in fact they charge us interest . All they have ever done is loan money for infrastructure projects i.e.Anfield expansion , new training centre which is the repaid over a set period .

The Leicester debt to equity is just to get round FFP rules as far as i can see.
 
Welshie said:
Basically yeah, exact same point I made about Liverpool and got snide remarks back for.

Shifting debts to the owners company that will need to be bought out if the club is sold or might be recalled if the holding company falls apart.

Only the truly rich owners can make this investment thing work, City for example, who are now profitable with no debt.
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It's debt mate and don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. One of the Prem clubs will go under once all this comes home to roost. They can decorate it is fancy party bunting, but it's debt!

It don't matter whether it's transfer fees or a sparkling new state of the art training ground the costs are being shifted around, and unless you know where to look some of it can be pretty well hidden, in things such as 'developments' or shares or just waiting for the banks to write it off, when it becomes too much trouble to recover.

I'm just waiting for the government to put a ban on betting advertising, that's if they have the balls, particularly so if clubs are made to clean up their act and any Asian investors could be going ouch.

Obviously don't take everything I say too seriously, I'm just waiting for that rainy day. <whistle>
 
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brb said:
It's debt mate and don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. One of the Prem clubs will go under once all this comes home to roost. They can decorate it is fancy party bunting, but it's debt!

It don't matter whether it's transfer fees or a sparkling new state of the art training ground the costs are being shifted around, and unless you know where to look some of it caan be pretty well hidden, in things such as 'developments' or shares or just waiting for the banks to write it off, when it becomes too much trouble to recover.

I'm just waiting for the government to put a ban on betting advertising, that's if they have the balls, particularly so if clubs are made to clean up their act and any Asian investors could be going ouch.

Obviously don't take everything I say too seriously, I'm just waiting for that rainy day. <whistle>
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Can't see a PL club going to the wall as someone will buy them in a distressed sale but more will go to bust when / if they get relegated .
 
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Solid_Air 2 said:
stay in PL keep hosting boxing , NFL Guns n Roses etc and they will be able to afford the repayments though if the present transfer & wage madness continues who knows .
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Yeah you're right, soccer football could just become a side attraction for Spurs, bit like catching ducks at the funfair, hoping to win a trophy teddy bear.
 
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Solid_Air 2 said:
probably cos you were chatting **** .
At no point have FSG ever written off money they have loaned the club in fact they charge us interest . All they have ever done is loan money for infrastructure projects i.e.Anfield expansion , new training centre which is the repaid over a set period .

The Leicester debt to equity is just to get round FFP rules as far as i can see.
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That was my entire point tho and you replied essentially saying I was right and you've done the exact same now.

It's debt, you argued that the debt was actually from the owners and I argued that debt is debt.
 
Welshie said:
That was my entire point tho and you replied essentially saying I was right and you've done the exact same now.

It's debt, you argued that the debt was actually from the owners and I argued that debt is debt.
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No we have not had the debt written off unlike Leicester we are paying it back from club generated funds you are conflating two different things .
I will try and make it simple for you - in only one case is money "changing hands" .
 
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Solid_Air 2 said:
No we have not had the debt written off unlike Leicester we are paying it back from club generated funds you are conflating two different things .
I will try and make it simple for you - in only one case is money "changing hands" .
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That's nice Solid.

I read back anyway, my original point about Liverpool was they didn't invest any of the money to upgrade the stadium and actually lumbered the costs onto LFC; as debt to FSG.

My point back then was that was ****ing dreadful business practice as it does, no matter who it lies with, leaves LFC in debt. You agreed in the end.
 
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To clarify. Leicester "plucky little underdogs who did it the right way without splashing the cash" have written off 300 million pounds worth of debt in the last decade.

If/when we do that there'll be hell on.
 
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brb said:
So it is still debt, all they've done is move it around, which is what I said. If it wasn't debt the owners would just pay it off, which they haven't, so they are safe guarding their own pockets, not safe guarding Leicester FC, because if you went into financial trouble you will also have that adiditional debt on top in the event of any sale.
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Its actually not debt anymore. Its shareholder equity. The value of the King Power shareholding has gone up by that amount but the actual share value has little relation to how much King Power could get for the club. If the shares are not traded publicly they have little relation to the value of the club. The value of the club is the sum of its assets, its moneymaking ability and any goodwill., but effectively its what they can sell it for.

Its actually a very good thing for the club, as the holding company no longer has to seek a guarantee from King Power that they will not call in that debt each year and there is no longer a debt liability on the balance sheet.

By converting it into share equity rather than writing it off it I don't think it will generate a tax liability either.
 
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JakartaToon said:
Its actually not debt anymore. Its shareholder equity. The value of the King Power shareholding has gone up by that amount but the actual share value has little relation to how much King Power could get for the club. If the shares are not traded publicly they have little relation to the value of the club. The value of the club is the sum of its assets, its moneymaking ability and any goodwill., but effectively its what they can sell it for.

Its actually a very good thing for the club, as the holding company no longer has to seek a guarantee from King Power that they will not call in that debt each year and there is no longer a debt liability on the balance sheet.

By converting it into share equity rather than writing it off it I don't think it will generate a tax liability either.
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It's debt mate, they owe money and they've just converted it to shares. The profitability of the club is only as good as it owners remaining owners, and if they sell the club, it's a debt that will have to be paid, alternatively all the shares could end up worthless, it's like someone investing in the Titanic and the owners selling you a lifeboat with a hole in it.

I know you are a businessman and understand all this shhite, but to me it's like playing monopoly and not getting £200 everytime I past go but receiving rubber ducks instead.
 
Welshie said:
Basically yeah, exact same point I made about Liverpool and got snide remarks back for.

Shifting debts to the owners company that will need to be bought out if the club is sold or might be recalled if the holding company falls apart.

Only the truly rich owners can make this investment thing work, City for example, who are now profitable with no debt.
Click to expand...

Depends on whether you are talking about external debt or internal debt ... the company in which the football club sits is owned 100% by King Power International ... the company that has facilitated the loans ... so this is wholly internal debt between 2 King Power companies ... so the only loser either way ... loans not being repaid or the football club (company) going into administration, would be King Power ... very different to owing outside institutions or investors ...
 
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I remember our original owner doing something like gifting the ground back to the club, but guess who was the owner of the club, the very same guy that gifted us the ground. <laugh>
 
JakartaToon said:
Its actually not debt anymore. Its shareholder equity. The value of the King Power shareholding has gone up by that amount but the actual share value has little relation to how much King Power could get for the club. If the shares are not traded publicly they have little relation to the value of the club. The value of the club is the sum of its assets, its moneymaking ability and any goodwill., but effectively its what they can sell it for.

Its actually a very good thing for the club, as the holding company no longer has to seek a guarantee from King Power that they will not call in that debt each year and there is no longer a debt liability on the balance sheet.

By converting it into share equity rather than writing it off it I don't think it will generate a tax liability either.
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Isn’t the negative that if KingPower goes tits up Leicester City are now part of their assets, so could effectively be broken up and sold to the highest bidder?
I know someone will say KingPower are not likely to go tits up, but the business had a major negative hit due to COVID.
 
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FosseFilberto said:
Depends on whether you are talking about external debt or internal debt ... the company in which the football club sits is owned 100% by King Power International ... the company that has facilitated the loans ... so this is wholly internal debt between 2 King Power companies ... so the only loser either way ... loans not being repaid or the football club (company) going into administration, would be King Power ... very different to owing outside institutions or investors ...
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Have they mentioned how the stadium expansion will be financed?
 
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