Match Day Thread General Match Thread

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
I was actually going by TransferMarkt's squad value page.

And with the greatest respect, this is why we are where we are.

Obsessing over data and algorithms and no one gets up off their arse to physically go and watch a player and say "yes, they're the bees knees in their current league, but will they adapt to this league and do that align with the club's philosophy?"

Johan Lange's favourite app has to be Excel. Loves it.
 
And with the greatest respect, this is why we are where we are.

Obsessing over data and algorithms and no one gets up off their arse to physically go and watch a player and say "yes, they're the bees knees in their current league, but will they adapt to this league and do that align with the club's philosophy?"

Johan Lange's favourite app has to be Excel. Loves it.

This.

By all means use data to help make a decision but people seem to be forgetting the human aspect which is so important.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spurlock
And with the greatest respect, this is why we are where we are.

Obsessing over data and algorithms and no one gets up off their arse to physically go and watch a player and say "yes, they're the bees knees in their current league, but will they adapt to this league and do that align with the club's philosophy?"

Johan Lange's favourite app has to be Excel. Loves it.
I'm not actually on the Spurs recruitment team but it always seems to me that we don't do enough on data. It beggars belief that Werner can have good stats....it's much more likely that someone thought he was a good player once and we can make him one again. Similarly Richarlison.
 
And with the greatest respect, this is why we are where we are.

Obsessing over data and algorithms and no one gets up off their arse to physically go and watch a player and say "yes, they're the bees knees in their current league, but will they adapt to this league and do that align with the club's philosophy?"

Johan Lange's favourite app has to be Excel. Loves it.
They eyeball test had people drooling over Ndombele

The data said he would be a passenger for 75+ minutes per match
 
I'm not actually on the Spurs recruitment team but it always seems to me that we don't do enough on data. It beggars belief that Werner can have good stats....it's much more likely that someone thought he was a good player once and we can make him one again. Similarly Richarlison.

Data is only worth following if the underlying philosophy and style is consistent and pursued without abandoning and changing it every few years. This is especially crucial if financial constraints force you to shop for players who will only come good 3-4 years down the line, which has been the case for us in recent years. There's little point signing them if it 3 years you're looking for completely different data sets.

This is why several of our youngsters haven't pushed on at all this season. Of course injuries need to be taken into consideration, but won't account for the whole story.

Take Pape Sarr as an example. Seemed to be progressing nicely under Ange because he wanted a box to box midfielder who could run all day and press the opposition in their third, two things Sarr is well above average at and has positive data for. He ranked among the highest players in the PL in interceptions, shots, and touches in the opposition third.

Then we sack Ange and appoint Frank, whose philosophy for his midfielders is completely different. Now Sarr is being asked to protect the defence in a low block and feed quick and accurate passes into the wide attackers. Lo and behold, his data shows that he isn't very good at either of these, which is why he couldn't hold down a place in the team at all this year and had put in numerous woeful performances in which he looks lost. He is ranked as one of the worst midfielders in the league for progressive passes, getting dispossessed, and progressive dribbles.

So there you go. Identical data tells two completely different stories, it all depends on who narrates it.

And because we change narrators like underwear, any spreadsheet Lange wants to pleasure himself to is by definition unusable.
 
Last edited:
They eyeball test had people drooling over Ndombele

The data said he would be a passenger for 75+ minutes per match

A few specific matches in the CL had people drooling.

A professional scout would be expected to watch far more games than that. A longer eyeball test would have revealed his limitations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spurlock
Data is only worth following if the underlying philosophy and style is consistent and pursued without abandoning and changing it every few years. This is especially crucial if financial constraints force you to shop for players who will only come good 3-4 years down the line, which has been the case for us in recent years. There's little point signing them if it 3 years you're looking for completely different data sets.

This is why several of our youngsters haven't pushed on at all this season. Of course injuries need to be taken into consideration, but won't account for the whole story.

Take Pape Sarr as an example. Seemed to be progressing nicely under Ange because he wanted a box to box midfielder who could run all day and press the opposition in their third, two things Sarr is well above average at and has positive data for. He ranked among the highest players in the PL in interceptions, shots, and touches in the opposition third.

Then we sack Ange and appoint Frank, whose philosophy for his midfielders is completely different. Now Sarr is being asked to protect the defence in a low block and feed quick and accurate passes into the wide attackers. Lo and behold, his data shows that he isn't very good at either of these, which is why he couldn't hold down a place in the team at all this year and had put in numerous woeful performances in which he looks lost. He is ranked as one of the worst midfielders in the league for progressive passes, getting dispossessed, and progressive dribbles.

So there you go. Identical data tells two completely different stories, it all depends on who narrates it.

And because we change narrators like underwear, any spreadsheet Lange wants to pleasure himself to is by definition unusable.
If Frank chose to use players in a way that wasn't suited to their strengths that's his fault, not Lange's or Sarr's. The coach's job is to get the best out of players not play a pet system. The data tells you what strengths the player has...to use him in a different way is bonkers.
 
A few specific matches in the CL had people drooling.

A professional scout would be expected to watch far more games than that. A longer eyeball test would have revealed his limitations.
Quite...but we backed Pochettino's judgement when as our coach he had no time to watch lots of games. That's why coaches shouldn't choose players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Citizen Kane.
If Frank chose to use players in a way that wasn't suited to their strengths that's his fault, not Lange's or Sarr's. The coach's job is to get the best out of players not play a pet system. The data tells you what strengths the player has...to use him in a different way is bonkers.

Of course Frank is mainly to blame. In fact he simply stopped playing Sarr as he didn't know what to do with him. The whole midfield has been a mess all season because no combination was able to deliver what he wanted. And despite arriving with a label of being a tactically pragmatic coach, he ended up being anything but.

But to ignore the importance of consistency is foolish imo. If a club can maintain a similar style of play over many years, the margin of risk in relying on data is greatly diminished.

The sensible appointment after sacking Ange would have been someone quite similar to him in philosophy but with less reliance on frequent sprints and more emphasis on positional defending. Instead we hired someone who seemed to insists on no sprints at all and exclusive emphasis on defending.

It reaches a point where the manager is more hindrance than help and the blame therefore lies squarely with Lange because he was pushing strongly for his fellow Dane to take the position despite presumably knowing how badly that appointment would go given our data focus under Ange.

Data has made it very difficult for anyone to get a tactical advantage anymore. As mentioned above, Arteta relies on legal foul play to get advantages. Pep relies on the best players. Slot has the best players but doesn't seem to know what to do with them.

I see Emery, Glasner and Silva as the only three managers in the league who consistently show an ability to out-think the opposition. Iraola isn't far behind. The rest are honestly nothing special.
 
A few specific matches in the CL had people drooling.

A professional scout would be expected to watch far more games than that. A longer eyeball test would have revealed his limitations.
There's also the fact Poch watched Vincent Janssen personally several times before signing him. And if anyone knows what his logic of signing Federico Fazio was, I'd love to hear it

The eyeball test is the most overrated thing in scouting. Harry Redknapp's pretty much said that for years, since a lot of the time it's done by watching tapes and by complete coincidence no agent will hand over a tape of their client having a 'mare
 
Last edited:
Tottenham v Liverpool Team News

Romero and Palhinha out for the annual loss at Anfield. They are expected back for Forest.

Bissouma injured again.

VDV suspended.

Gallagher is a doubt. And no, apparently the doubt isn't over his claim to being a footballer.

Udogie expected back for Forest. He's been sorely missed but should be sold in the summer. Very injury prone.

No updates on our other walking wounded.

We'll probably see:

Flappy
Porro Dragusin Danso Spence
Gray Sarr Simons
RKM Solanke Richarlison
 
There's also the fact Poch watched Vincent Janssen personally several times before signing him. And if anyone knows what his logic of signing Federico Fazio was, I'd love to hear it

The eyeball test is the most overrated thing in scouting. Harry Redknapp's pretty much said that for years, since a lot of the time it's done by watching tapes and by complete coincidence no agent will hand over a tape of their client having a 'mare
It’s both data, stats and eye test.

If you sign a striker for big money who’s the wrong side of 25 and never scored a lot of goals (stats) but then expect them to lead your line after selling Harry Kane then it’s clear to anyone what’s gonna happen
 
Hope we’d seen the last of dragusin once Romero came back!

Not that it would matter anyway and not that they’ll need the help but we’ll already be up against 12 men at anfield anyway.

Surely he has no option but to play 4 at the back!

Hopefully Gallagher recovers as will be good to hopefully see him get a game in his actual position with paulinha and bissouma out.
 
Hope we’d seen the last of dragusin once Romero came back!

Not that it would matter anyway and not that they’ll need the help but we’ll already be up against 12 men at anfield anyway.

Surely he has no option but to play 4 at the back!

Hopefully Gallagher recovers as will be good to hopefully see him get a game in his actual position with paulinha and bissouma out.

I think it's much more important to start playing Gray in his proper position. Once again he has been filling in all over the pitch. Using him as a lwb is just a load of pish.

He's the only one who currently looks like he gives a toss, and is likeliest to make things happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tilly'sowner
I think it's much more important to start playing Gray in his proper position. Once again he has been filling in all over the pitch. Using him as a lwb is just a load of pish.

He's the only one who currently looks like he gives a toss, and is likeliest to make things happen.
Yeah gray is a must start in midfield at the moment. Just hope Tudor doesn’t stick him at centre back to keep his 3!