Off Topic General Election

The UK is doing fine thanks with a strong and stable government which is about to endorsed further by the British public. The last thing Britain needs is a weak government unwilling to take on vested interests. French governments have promised urgently needed reforms for the last 20 years, all have backed off when faced with opposition.

France is extremely politically divided with a strong hard left and hard right. Macron is very unpopular with both left and right. He is set to do well in the national assembly election although only 45% of voters have confidence in Macron and even fewer in prime minister Philippe- the lowest ratings for French leaders starting their terms in over 20 years. The honeymoon period will be short.

Fortunately the UK electorate are more sophisticated than their French counterparts, they will re-elect the Tories with an increased majority.
 
superhorns said:
As you well know there vastly differing degrees of austerity. The Greeks must be on the hardest with the UK currently on the softest. The IMF have taken a reasonable line knowing the Greeks will never repay most of the loans. The Germans are taking a hard and unreasonable stance to set an example to other Euro countries. As usual they run the EU for purely selfish reasons.
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The Germans do not run the EU. They make up a portion of both the European Commission and the EU. Parliament and could be outvoted at any time - they are the largest contributors to the EU. Budget, but, even in this, could easily be counterbalanced from a combination of 2-3 others. If Britain were not 'running away' they could be running the show together with the French. It has always been the apparent inability of Britain and France to work together which has led to Germany having such an influential role.
 
There is another Watford FC forum where they have debates on the general election. They have 3 separate threads for the manifestoes of the 3 main parties - and debate only on the issues. In this entire thread I have not seen any debate whatsoever regarding actual policies of the main parties - I am sure we can do better.
 
colognehornet said:
The Germans do not run the EU. They make up a portion of both the European Commission and the EU. Parliament and could be outvoted at any time - they are the largest contributors to the EU. Budget, but, even in this, could easily be counterbalanced from a combination of 2-3 others. If Britain were not 'running away' they could be running the show together with the French. It has always been the apparent inability of Britain and France to work together which has led to Germany having such an influential role.
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Although the Germans could be outvoted it never happens, they do effectively run the show as proved with the block on the new Greek deal. Britain has decided it does not want to be part of a federal Europe. France daren't upset the Germans in case the lucrative CAP is trimmed.
 
superhorns said:
The UK is doing fine thanks with a strong and stable government which is about to endorsed further by the British public. The last thing Britain needs is a weak government unwilling to take on vested interests. French governments have promised urgently needed reforms for the last 20 years, all have backed off when faced with opposition.

France is extremely politically divided with a strong hard left and hard right. Macron is very unpopular with both left and right. He is set to do well in the national assembly election although only 45% of voters have confidence in Macron and even fewer in prime minister Philippe- the lowest ratings for French leaders starting their terms in over 20 years. The honeymoon period will be short.

Fortunately the UK electorate are more sophisticated than their French counterparts, they will re-elect the Tories with an increased majority.
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Which vested interests are you talking about? The newspaper magnets? I doubt that there will be any change there. Will the government stand up to them. Why should they while they only print favourable news? We did see a sudden U-turn from May when the Torygraph went after her though.

If you could only see what is in the news here you would not be saying what you do. Le Pen has admitted that she was wrong to concentrate on the EU, the Euro and immigration, and now will try and re-brand the party along less extremist lines. Even Farage and Putin failed to get her elected despite their best efforts. Both left and right have had a lesson and are in total meltdown. No longer strong SH, they don't know what they are doing to coin a phrase.
 
yorkshirehornet said:
You have made insults too.. And as I see it you came back in here and made generalised insults about a number of us.... I certainly belive I have never unsulted you... Toby had made virtually no posts on here as I believe he was advised about his behaviour.. Until you came on today and made some very abusive statements.
You really can't have it both ways..
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So you need to answer for Toby as well. My comments were made to the Liberal Left clique on this board, but as many have denied there is any such thing, then they cannot be taken personally can they?
Fine for me, it confirms what many believe that insults are OK on here as long as they are pointed in the correct direction.
 
superhorns said:
Although the Germans could be outvoted it never happens, they do effectively run the show as proved with the block on the new Greek deal. Britain has decided it does not want to be part of a federal Europe. France daren't upset the Germans in case the lucrative CAP is trimmed.
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Nobody was asking Britain to be a member of a federal Europe - they had more opt outs then anyone else, and, voted with the rest of the EU. on 95% of all legislation - a higher success rate than any other EU. nation. The problem which you have is that you like to have a picture of Britain being led by the nose in the EU. - a 6 stone weakling always having sand kicked in its face - this, on the one hand, yet want us to believe how strong and dynamic Britain is on the other hand. The 2 pictures do not add up.
 
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wear_yellow said:
So you need to answer for Toby as well. My comments were made to the Liberal Left clique on this board, but as many have denied there is any such thing, then they cannot be taken personally can they?
Fine for me, it confirms what many believe that insults are OK on here as long as they are pointed in the correct direction.
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Just exactly what do you mean by 'Liberal Left' clique, as if the expression were self explanatory ? Do we all think the same, or have secret party membership cards ? I am very definitely 'Left', but what do you mean by Liberal ? Surely you should define your terms before using them so liberally.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Which vested interests are you talking about? The newspaper magnets? I doubt that there will be any change there. Will the government stand up to them. Why should they while they only print favourable news? We did see a sudden U-turn from May when the Torygraph went after her though.

If you could only see what is in the news here you would not be saying what you do. Le Pen has admitted that she was wrong to concentrate on the EU, the Euro and immigration, and now will try and re-brand the party along less extremist lines. Even Farage and Putin failed to get her elected despite their best efforts. Both left and right have had a lesson and are in total meltdown. No longer strong SH, they don't know what they are doing to coin a phrase.
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The trade unions and those who insist on ridiculous employee rights which keep France at the top of the unemployment league amongst leading nations. You are getting a bit over excited before the guy has achieved anything. He is disliked by many, his low poll ratings bear that out. The hard left and right still have significant support as the recent election showed. There was similar hype at the start of the presidencies of Chirac and Sarkozy, both promised to sort out restrictive practices, both caved in to pressure from organised labour.

We don't know yet what any U-turn on the care issue will look like although she rightly had feedback from her MP's and the grassroots. It looked like the policy was rushed out without sufficient consultation. There should be a sensible cap on any individual's liability.
 
superhorns said:
The trade unions and those who insist on ridiculous employee rights which keep France at the top of the unemployment league amongst leading nations. You are getting a bit over excited before the guy has achieved anything. He is disliked by many, his low poll ratings bear that out. The hard left and right still have significant support as the recent election showed. There was similar hype at the start of the presidencies of Chirac and Sarkozy, both promised to sort out restrictive practices, both caved in to pressure from organised labour.

We don't know yet what any U-turn on the care issue will look like although she rightly had feedback from her MP's and the grassroots. It looked like the policy was rushed out without sufficient consultation. There should be a sensible cap on any individual's liability.
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So having sent Hunt out to say there would be no cap, under pressure she changes her mind. Cabinet ministers say they were not consulted, and made it very clear they were unhappy with her. Not strong and stable, but weak and wobbly. If you read back to your comment you will find that you were talking about vested interests in the UK, not France. So will she be taking them on as you say?
 
colognehornet said:
Just exactly what do you mean by 'Liberal Left' clique, as if the expression were self explanatory ? Do we all think the same, or have secret party membership cards ? I am very definitely 'Left', but what do you mean by Liberal ? Surely you should define your terms before using them so liberally.
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It is the group representng the Left and the Left of Centre political spectrum that have attacked anyone disagreeing with them, that have stifled debate, that have driven away new posters that offer a different view. They protect their position through double standards - you say keep the political debate to the political threads yet say nothing about BB spreading his Tory hatred across Thought for The Day, Fun for a Friday and The Nest.
 
I really feel like giving up.. Well Done. I posted on the NHS to try and re focus and it is just ignored... And making aggressive generalised and personalised insults continues.. Why have you come in here to do this W_y? I repeatand you can check I have never abused you.

You style of posting currently continue to Spread a climate in which meaningful debate is not possible...
You seem to do the very thing you claim to abhor..
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
So having sent Hunt out to say there would be no cap, under pressure she changes her mind. Cabinet ministers say they were not consulted, and made it very clear they were unhappy with her. Not strong and stable, but weak and wobbly. If you read back to your comment you will find that you were talking about vested interests in the UK, not France. So will she be taking them on as you say?
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You misread my post, I was referring to vested interests in France. I know you are used to weak governments in France but the UK is unlike those, we have a popular government with a very popular PM. The UK will soon endorse this view with an increased majority. Where is the rise of the Lib Dems you predicted?
 
Something I’d be interested in hearing is your thoughts on the type (not left or right or whatever) of politicians you would prefer.

Take for example:

Politicians who change tack. When you run a company you expect your fellow directors to be continually reviewing progress, results and changes (within the marketplace, the stance of the competition, legislation, etc ). The strongest directors are those who are open minded, can appraise the situation, if necessary openly own up to a mistake, and change direction as required – even if that means cancelling projects and materialising a loss. Yet it seems this is deeply frowned upon by the electorate when it comes to MPs. Although reappraisal, excepting you make an error, and moving in a new direction is a bad thing.

Politicians who get on with the long term plan and do not pamper to the electorate every 5 mins. As far as I am concerned I vote in my MP based on his/her views, intelligence and other abilities. I then expect him/her to get on with the job. Where as some (ok an extreme) expect to be consulted every 2 mins on each topic that arises. Of course there has to be a balance.

Any thoughts?
 
kchorn said:
Something I’d be interested in hearing is your thoughts on the type (not left or right or whatever) of politicians you would prefer.

Take for example:

Politicians who change tack. When you run a company you expect your fellow directors to be continually reviewing progress, results and changes (within the marketplace, the stance of the competition, legislation, etc ). The strongest directors are those who are open minded, can appraise the situation, if necessary openly own up to a mistake, and change direction as required – even if that means cancelling projects and materialising a loss. Yet it seems this is deeply frowned upon by the electorate when it comes to MPs. Although reappraisal, excepting you make an error, and moving in a new direction is a bad thing.

Politicians who get on with the long term plan and do not pamper to the electorate every 5 mins. As far as I am concerned I vote in my MP based on his/her views, intelligence and other abilities. I then expect him/her to get on with the job. Where as some (ok an extreme) expect to be consulted every 2 mins on each topic that arises. Of course there has to be a balance.

Any thoughts?
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For me, the part I've highlighted is the problem - 'voting for the man' isn't always the wisest option For example, I have a good friend here who was re-elected recently, not as an MP, but as a Councillor. Nice guy, intelligent, successful businessman - but represents the Tory Party. For that reason, and that reason alone, he knows that he will never get my vote. No matter how competent he may be at the job, and to be honest he is, like any politician he has to do what he is told by the leaders of a party with whom I have absolutely no common ground. In terms of my MP, I've been lucky for the last couple of elections having been able to vote for the person and the party - an excellent MP representing a party whose ideals fit my own. It hasn't always been the case though - in the past I have voted for the Greens where the SNP candidate hasn't impressed me.

If pushed, I'd go for the former of your two option types - as long as there was a healthy dose of honesty there, a must for any politician. That's something that has been missing ever since I can remember, not just financial honesty, but honesty in interactions with the public. Unfortunately that seems, in most cases, to be a step too far.
 
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Well, isn't this good news...:(

I'm fairly certain that the words I heard on the Andrew Neil Show the other day were that a certain uncosted manifesto would be entirely financed by "economic growth". Seems unlikely, so what next?

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kchorn said:
Something I’d be interested in hearing is your thoughts on the type (not left or right or whatever) of politicians you would prefer.

Take for example:

Politicians who change tack. When you run a company you expect your fellow directors to be continually reviewing progress, results and changes (within the marketplace, the stance of the competition, legislation, etc ). The strongest directors are those who are open minded, can appraise the situation, if necessary openly own up to a mistake, and change direction as required – even if that means cancelling projects and materialising a loss. Yet it seems this is deeply frowned upon by the electorate when it comes to MPs. Although reappraisal, excepting you make an error, and moving in a new direction is a bad thing.

Politicians who get on with the long term plan and do not pamper to the electorate every 5 mins. As far as I am concerned I vote in my MP based on his/her views, intelligence and other abilities. I then expect him/her to get on with the job. Where as some (ok an extreme) expect to be consulted every 2 mins on each topic that arises. Of course there has to be a balance.

Any thoughts?
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Assuming that you have a representative (as opposed to direct) democracy - and also that you have political parties, with manifestoes, who are also paying election campaigns then I would say that politicians are, more or less, compelled to tow the party line - keeping up with circumstances but bound also by what they said before being elected. I would not like to see a situation like in the USA. where, although the parties are not as held to dogma as in Britain, parties do not pay for senators election campaigns - the result is that they need sponsors to be elected. As long as the party is paying for your election costs then you are held bound by their manifesto once elected. If you do it as an independent then fine - but you will either have to have your own money, or be cap in hand to someone. Many politicians started out with dreams as to what they could achieve - but, once you join a party then you have to start making compromises (because no party agrees with you 100%) - you make even more if you start serving in coalitions. Then you have to balance your dream against what is actually possible, and also what the electorate want to hear - because without power you can do nothing. In the end there is precious little of your dream left. In my perfect society we would all be politicians, and there would be no state - so my ideal politician would be my neighbour.
 
It is dangerous to mention the IMF when you have someone who works in the Finance Industry in Jersey among you. As far as we are concerned, they (or the department concerned with inspections) are a bunch of bullies as they inspect us more than any other jurisdiction and we have passed every single time. They can't seem to grasp the simple fact that most of the finance industry here are multi-national companies and that their reputation would be damaged, possibly irretrievably, if they were part of a failing jurisdiction.
 
wear_yellow said:
So you need to answer for Toby as well. My comments were made to the Liberal Left clique on this board, but as many have denied there is any such thing, then they cannot be taken personally can they?
Fine for me, it confirms what many believe that insults are OK on here as long as they are pointed in the correct direction.
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Why would I answerfor Toby? Clearly he speaks for himself...


I have been in the business long enough to work out that the scattergun approach you have been using has to be aimed at several individuals.. Best you encounter them directly than generalise IMO.

Good to have you back... Maybe we can have some laughs too...
 
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