I know it's not on to sound superior dr, but honestly, when you've watched Salcido for the whole game, and I sit near the corner where the left back is closest, you'd not say daft stuff like "he was no worse than Baird." Yes he is, and much worse than JP too. Believe me, and the people who sit around me have so wanted him to do well, we'd given him up by Christmas and he got no better after that. I have no idea why a rated player has failed so miserably in a decent defence, but he has. If he were to suddenly improve and come up to the mark I'll be the first to say, but if Jol doesn't realise what he is by the end of August Salcido will be gone in January I'm sure. Our need for decent full backs does seem acute, especially when we hear Jol fancies Kelly and some of us are wanting the return of Konch. There must be some more talent out there surely?
Captain, I guess one has the draw the line somewhere on what is and what isn't a "unique talent"; if Cruyff and Messi are the benchmarks then, yes, you're right that Hutton doesn't measure up. But when I say unique talent, I'm talking about someone standing above the rest at that position. And, of course, it's all pretty subjective, but beyond Glen Johnson and Bacary Sagna, I just don't see many players better than Hutton at that position. Invanovich? Belletti? Richards? Well if so, I don't see it.
But, by definition, a unique talent is a one-off. That's what unique means - that there's no one else like him. Hutton is a decent talent, even (on his best days) an impressive talent, but he certainly isn't unique. Neither is anyone in our current squad, many of whom are better in their positions than he is in his. I don't think Spurs would let Kyle Walker go, but I'd take him ahead of Hutton (and if they won't let him go, that would seem to confirm that Harry Redknapp agrees with me!) Onoura from Man City is another one that might be worth a look, as I've said elsewhere. That said, I would be quite happy for us to sign Hutton, subject to reasonable price and wages. Sorry if my pedantic tendencies have hacked you off.
Never hacked off ... "unique" I looked it up. Your understanding of the definition is better than mine.
No problem DR. I've just thought, this could start a new discussion - which players in the history of Fulham deserve to be remembered as 'unique'? Not necessarily good, bad, loved, hated, etc but unquestionably one of a kind? The first two names that come to mind are Johnny Haynes and Jimmy Hill. Oh wait, they've got the same initials - does that disqualify them? Any more suggestions, anyone?
Cottagecraven, you've got Salcido down to a tee. And all of it summs up Kelly as well, although he misses them or crocks them rather than 'falling on his ass'. It certainly seems that Kelly is in favour with the new regime - he's been given a spread on the official Fulham FC website about how great he was/is going to be in Europe. Even if Kelly and Salcido stay they are at best squaddies. No problems with Konch coming back. Hutton's not class - he's just a big, barnstorming guy - but would be okay. Neither at the expense of Dembele though. Why has everyone given up on JP ???
Cottagecraven, you've got Salcido down to a tee. And all of it sums up Kelly as well, although he misses them or crocks them rather than 'falling on his ass'. It certainly seems that Kelly is in favour with the new regime - he's been given a spread on the official Fulham FC website about how great he was/is going to be in Europe. Even if Kelly and Salcido stay they are at best squaddies. No problems with Konch coming back. Hutton's not class - he's just a big, barnstorming guy - but would be okay. Neither at the expense of Dembele though. Why has everyone given up on JP ???
Because he was easily as bad, if not worse, than Salcido last year. And unlike Salcido, JP is not under contract.
Fair enough Surlyc. I still think John was suffering from being left out of the Euro final; he's the kind of guy that needs an arm of encouragement round his shoulder and with Woy and Ray gone he was never going to get that from Hughes or (any) of his hangers on. Of course JP is a professional and on a good whack (25k per week I think) so it was down to him to show mettle etc. Which he didn't. Rocky your correct as well. Shuffling around the same names l think reflects our frustration though. As said, it may be that Jol and MacKintosh (top man) have something up their sleeves. What I am convinced about however, is that Kelly and Salcido are not the solution.
"Because he was easily as bad, if not worse, than Salcido last year." How could you tell? JP hardly played and was not given a chance to overcome hi world cup hangover. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone could compare Salcido to any other player in the squad favourably - if you watched him play for 90 mins.
I'd be very happy to see Pantsil back where he belongs, but apparently that's not an option. I guess his wage bill and age have ruled him out. Too bad. Having Pantsil back would solve half of our problems. Rocky ... my preception that Salcido wasn't terrible was based on the games I saw on TV, which is not the same thing as seeing the game live. You're right that there's a perspective difference when you get to watch the games in person. I'm not sure why that's is, but it certainly is true. I remember watching a see a game live, then watching the following day as a replay on TV. I hardly recognized the game. At the Fulham game in Basel two years ago, I final got an appreciation for Gera. The man never stopped running ... ever. And that's something the TV doesn't pick up. At the same time, watching from the corner stands, I found myself absolutely frustrated with Dempsey's lack of movement. He was probably wondering "who's that maniac yelling at me from the stands?" In any event, I'm not a supporter of Salcido. I want him out. Even on TV he appears old, slow and ineffective.
dr Salcido is not old nor slow; he simply can't read the game and lays off his man. That makes him ineffective. Great plug for GERA - how about rejuvenating 'Gera to Stay' thread ?
Ahh the Salcido abuse has resurfaced, or did it ever leave? They guy has been here for one season! Do you all remember Baird's first season for us? He wasn't exactly our unsung hero then was he? Give Salcido until Christmas and if he still hasn't improved then I will bite the bullet and consider him a failure. Do you remember that Hodgson started with a 10 game winless run? 9 points from 13 games I think it was, you people just need to give Salcido a chance. Rocks, after you've been so insistent that JP is actually useful, I'd have expected you to be a little more patient.
Bandy, I don't know how often you get to games, but honestly if you'd watched Salcido game after game for the whole game you'd share the same view I'm sure. Pantsil has been a good player for us, and Baird was never as poor in his early days.
Well due to my studies and location I obviously don't get to as many games as the rest of you, I'd say a handful a season when I can afford the time and the money (sigh) but from what I have seen of Salcido he isn't THAT BAD. Granted he has made mistakes, I'll give you that but so have a lot of people this season, and for them, it wasn;t their first season in a league overseas away fro their family. I'm just saying wait a little longer and if he doesn't get better then get rid.
Cottager58 - I'm for Gera staying, particulary with Europa Cup little more than a week away. But while I like to see him stay for selfish reasons (he's good for us), I think a player of his quality deserves to finish out his career in the starting 11 of a team somewhere - like back at WBA. Gera staying is good for us, but bad (IMO) for him. He deserves better. The same is basically true for Greening, though I have less affection for him. Is if fair to keep a 30-year-old, EPL quality player sitting on the bench? I have a hard time saying yes to that.
Another lost opportunity - Steve Caulker has gone from the Spuds to Swansea on loan. Gives me a chance to yet again promote my boy - Ben Gordon of Chelsea. If you remember they've just brought him back from a loan period, but he's not going to seriously challenge Ashley Cole so why aren't we at least having a punt ?
