Frankel

Why? SYT has been found out once too often this year to be seen as any benchmark for greatness?

 

As I said Beef, he would probably have to break a track record to beat So You Think. If he did that over 8f then any doubts I have would disappear. But I don't want to take anything away from Frankel, a lovely specimen and a joy to watch. Just wish I had been there to soak up the atmosphere. Couldn't even watch it live on TV.

 

I think that Frankel has an advantage on sea the stars as the latter was to my mind a great horse, however it is possible for people to question him pretty much on only one account, which is that in his 3 year old career he lacked another top quality horse to measure him by. He of course ran against some very decent horses but not top class and i feel that he was never extended once.

Now with Frankel he has form lines which really stand up, most horse racing people really rate Canford Cliffs (best Hannons had) Goldikova (multiple breeders cup winner) Excelebration (very impressive wide margin group one winner) Immortal verse etc and it is due to these form lines that i feel the plaudits Frankel is getting are well and truely deserved. He has not just beaten these good horses he has left them for dead.

I really respect the decision to keep him in training and shows the Prince is a sportsman and racing fan first and foremost. Next year i would like him to take in a 6f group one, a mile and finally be stepped up to 10f for next years champion stakes as a finale as i do feel that distance will be he's sternest test. I think he will come through it but i think it is when you will see him really have to dig in. If he were given a race at 6f i think you would see him take it even easier than he does the mile races, no one would get near him.

 

Is it possible he could meet Black Caviar next year. The mouth is watering as I type.

 

Is it more likely that Frankel will step up in distance, than go the other way Ron? It would be one hell of a clash over 7f.

 

In today's world of hype Cyc, I have no doubt that, over 7f, that would be labelled the clash of the century; and I doubt many would disagree with that.

 

A little late with my 2 penneth, but after so much negativity in the industry what a fantastic way for the week to end.
This horse was hyped beyond belief last year but hasn't just lived up to it he's surpassed it, his presence next year should be celebrated.
I hear that he'll be aimed at 1m 2f next year ?
Breeders Cup anyone ?

 

The only Group 1 race in Europe over seven furlongs is the Prix de la Forêt on Arc Sunday, so I would not see any prospect of Frankel and anybody else getting together over that distance. I do not think there is any prospect of Frankel dropping back to six furlongs.

Sir Henry Cecil as good as told us on Saturday that Frankel would be trying ten furlongs as a four year old but otherwise I would expect him to stick to a mile, especially at the start of the season. There is no reason to believe that the horse will not stay the ten furlongs but I would imagine that he will go for the Queen Anne at Royal Ascot and thereafter maybe the Eclipse Stakes and almost certainly the Juddmonte International – the sponsor will definitely want to win his own money back for the second year running.

 

I hadn't planned to go on Saturday but then my local pub had 2 free tickets and i won one of them. I've only been to a couple of King George and Queen Elizabeths and a victor Chandler Chase at Ascot so maybe it doesn't mean much but the course was rammed. As Princess said early the crowds around the pre parade ring were unbelievable but, to be fair, whilst it was ridculous before Frankel's race it was busier than i've seen it around there in previouis visits all day.

The build up and race itself were unbelievable. The Grandstand was absolutely jam packed and the scenes when he came out in front of the stands were reminiscent of sea the stars at Longchamps (which I only watched on the TV). When Bullet train took a hold you could really feel the tension but as Frankel started to wind it up the roar got louder and louder. I was on the half furlong marker and by then the whole place just erupted into applause as he cruised on over the fisnihing line. I can't imagine many of the crowd had much of a bet on him but everyone wanted him to win.

I'm not too fussed about debate as over who's the greatest etc. as my knowledge really isn't good enough to go head to head with the good scribes on this board. All i know is I witnessed a real "I was there" event on Saturday and it was phenomenal to see. The whole day was excellent with some great performances but for me the jury is still out on how successful this will be as a concept. The weather, the novelty of it being the first champions day in the new format and Frankel may well lead to it being viewed through rose tinted spectacles. When it's raining, cold and there's no superstars (reagrdless of his position in the ranks of the best he still surely counts as a superstar) I suspect people will have a much lower opinion of the concept.

Reagrdless, the day belonged to Frankel and the 35,000 or so who were there won't forget it in a hurry.

 

I think we need a 'Frankel for sports personality of the year award' campaign. Or, at the very least, Cecil for lifetime achievement...

 

Chippy, according to the Racing Post on Sunday, the official attendance at Ascot was 26,700 so it was a little short of the 35,000 plus that are usually wedged in for the Royal meeting and less than attended King George day this year (around 30,000 in July).

Next time I go on the Ascot website with the intention of booking tickets to go there, somebody please shoot me.

I foolishly thought that the biggest non-Royal Ascot date in the calendar might see them get their organisational act together. How wrong can I be?

The stairs from the Grandstand lawn up into the Grandstand (to get to the parade ring/winners' enclosure) were a free-for-all as they had been on King George day. Despite their being a rail up the middle of the stairs, which would allow for going down on the left, coming up on the left, the security people just stood and did nothing. Add to this that during the races they allowed people to just stand on the stairs, making it virtually impossible to get to the winners' enclosure after each race because the stairs were blocked by plastic pint holding punters. What do they pay these security idiots to do?

Where I come from, civilised society would have somebody at least say “excuse me” before barging one out of the way, but clearly for minders of some Arab entourage it is okay to just shove people in the back to get them out of the way rather than having your clients walk around them. Said minders should come down to my local and shove me in the back on a Friday night so that I could break my hand on their stupid faces. I must be turning into some sort of socialist - I should move to France.

What really made my day was not getting a single picture of Frankel winning because the woman in front of me down at the rail decided to lift her young boy up to sit on the rail as soon as the stalls opened, blocking my view. Hopefully some of my post-race shots will be good.

 

That would be pretty amusing Toon , could you imagine the reaction from people who don't watch racing, when there going through the nominees and a horse pops up. Though his runs at Ascot this season have both been on the BBC so I'm sure theyd be happy to list him as a nominee.

I'm sure though there is a rule that means horse's can't win the award, I recall the Irish trying to get Sea The Stars nominated in there version of SPOTY, and I don't think he was allowed to be nominated. I don't see why a horse can't be nominated, horse racing is a sport afterall, and alot of the British public have enjoyed watching him race this year, that surely makes him a personality.

We've seen with Tony McCoy, that when race fans want one of there own to win, there is enough of us to make it happen. I would say he would have more chance after next season if he can stretch his run of consecutive victories to 15 or more. The only problem there is the Olympics being in London, though wouldn't it be funny if Frankel won it over a Kelly Holmes or a Chris Hoy type person

I know that Zenyatta won some big award in the states, on public polls, though I'm not sure Frankel has reached her level of popularity just yet, he needs to keep on winning, and more and more people will jump on the bandwagon

 

QM - I'm surprised at the attendance figure to be honest. It seemd a lot more than that. The behaviour on staor wells etc. was extraordinary but sadly becoming more typical of our society in general. I must have been asleep the day that Parliament made use of the phrases "please" "thank you" and "excuse me" illegal. It also seems that human rights now extend to the right to stand whereever you bloody well like and sod any poor bigger who wishes to pass by you.

Ascot is alsohopelessly equipped to deal with the crowds leaving the course. With catching a train back to London any less than 90 minutes after the event a complete impossibilioty people need something to do. There's very few pubs on town and those that exist were packed woith people who would galss you as soon as look at you. I thought it was odd that most of the bars closed immedaitely after racing but then one remained open by the side of a couple of gangsta rappers whose mission appeared to be to deafen the massed throngs with the kind of shireking usually reserved for a particularly spiteful domestic on a Saturday night in Romford. We opted for a lesiurely stroll to Costa Coffee for a sandwich and then took our chances at the station. That reintroduced me to another of my favourite bug bears - why do so many people feel the need to let the entire train carriage know that they cannot sing and, thanks to the removal of head phones on their stereos make it clear that their personal musical tastes demonstrate they have about as much appreciation and taste as a blind, deaf, ******ed lemur?

Thank goodness for fame and Glory, frankel, Dancing rain, Deacon Blues et al !

 

I don't think hes achieved the honour as the greatest horse thats ever lived, I doubt any of us were around to see Sea Bird II race widely reknowned as the best horse to ever step foot on turf. In My lifetime I always held Dancing Brave in the highest regard his Arc win and in the manner he did it against a top class field was brilliant and its unfair to compare both Dancing Brave and Frankel. Frankel is certainly the best horse I've seen over a mile as I wasn't around in the days of Brigadier Gerard. The way he races and that change of gear reminds Me alot of the ill fated Dubai Millenium who in My opinion gets overlooked by alot of people. He was a magnificent animal. I just hope Frankel retains the same ability at 4, I don't see why he shouldnt to Me he doesn't even looked to have peaked which is frightening...

 

I think Ascot were only aiming for around 25,000 on the day, and restricted ticket sales as such. The aim seems to be to get 30,000 next year and ultimately 40,000 in 5 years time. Not sure they will achieve that if the weather resumes normal service, but who knows.

I've got my photos together from the day and will put a thread up with them in later today.

If anyone fancies a bit of cross-pond banter (and I've already waded in), nip over to The Paulick Report where some (not all) American racing fans are already disparaging Frankel (and calling European's "wusses") for not heading over to BC: http://www.paulickreport.com/news/breeders-cup/no-breeders-cup-for-frankel-this-year/

 

A nice article on Frankel, and some insight as to how a stud works, from last Friday's Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/8828066/Fantastic-Frankel-was-fast-on-his-feet-as-a-foal.html

 

Don't be so ridiculous Chippy, I have lived in Ascot all my life, and it is one of the most safest, and trouble free places to go out drinking, when there is no racing on, as it's not the Ascot residents that cause the trouble, it's all the visitors. The pubs close early because we don't want the riff raff staggering out of the racing half cut, and then drinking until midnight in our pubs, and causing desruption in the pub and then on the streets as they leave. Ascot is a small town, and the 2 pubs on the highstreet and the one by the station are more than enough. There is no need to build anymore pubs.

We want people to come and watch the racing, and then go home, we don't want our streets littered with lager Louts, staggering around in suits. It's like a big gypsy wedding reception has poured out onto the streets, after racing, so we don't want to encourage more drinking by building more pubs.

You would have the same problem at any small town train station, that can't be helped, the train company does put on trains every 15 mins rather than every 30 during Ascot week. Were not going to build a bigger station, sand the train company aren't going to build an extra line, to save people half hour on there trip home from the races, on a few occasions each year, it's not worth it

 

PN.......You wait til I let rip on those yanks and there second rate racing, were a horse like Gio Ponti is classed as a champion. Frankel doesn't need to go to America, there are better horses in Europe for him to beat