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Off Topic France

Discussion in 'Watford' started by aberdeenhornet, Jan 26, 2017.

  1. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Youth are generally unimpressed by all candidates the World over SH. You or I would say , 'be pragmatic - vote for the lesser of the two evils' but younger people often cannot do that. All candidates are middle aged, middle class, live in good houses and are generally part of the establishment - whatever their parties.
     
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  2. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    That is why they should be denied the vote until 18.
     
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  3. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    M. Macron has thrashed the horrible Mme. Le Pen. She anticipated 40 % of the vote, but only got 34%.
     
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    Hornet-Fez likes this.
  4. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    It should be quite a concern that a third of the electorate that cast their vote, voted for a so called 'fascist' party. Macron was the better of two third rate candidates.
     
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  5. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The views of the French people I am meeting here in Croatia seem to echo the national current apathy and foreboding for the future. They think all French politicians are crooks!!
     
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  6. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Marion Maréchal-Le Pen who was seen as the successor to her aunt has thrown a spanner in the works by retiring from politics. The extreme right is now in the same sorry state that the socialists are in. Some think that she might in time try to do a Macron and form a new party that is divorced from the existing FN. Meanwhile the existing party is looking to re-brand itself as they realize that things have changed and they look like a relic of the past.
     
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  7. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    A third of the French voters chose a far right party, with growing support at each election. Some political commentators think Le Pen is well positioned to succeed at the next election especially if Macron makes a mess of his presidency. The far right in France have similar protectionist ideas to the far left, will they ever learn?
    The necessary reforms look a long way off.
     
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  8. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Why is protectionism always negative - always 'left' or 'right' ? Is it to be encouraged that I place my own workers jobs at risk by exposing them to direct competition with eg. cheap Chinese steel ? Is the expression 'buy British' protectionist, and therefore negative. Or to buy local products in order to protect the environment - food miles etc. ?
     
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  9. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    It is beginning to show up that here in France there is a new optimistic feeling about the direction the country is going. Macron said he would get his support from left, right and centre, and true to his word has formed a government from all parts of the spectrum.
    I am currently in one of the strongholds of the FN, and if you read a local paper you find out that the opinion of the public is that Le Pen had her chance, and will never get another so good. Right wing politics and the FN are washed up as badly as those parties of the left, and people who did vote for the FN have seen that the old traditional faces have had their day, and will not be inflicting their divisive policies again.
    From what I read there is a real wish of people to come together for the good of the country. Of course you cannot be certain that it will work, but at least the people hope that there will be an outcome where after a few weeks the recriminations do not start.
     
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    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  10. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Macron may go a long way to unite the majority of the country and take it forward... IMO a combination of sound business and social policy is what most people will settle for.. HE certainly has a foot in the different camps and his government composition reflects all parties
     
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  11. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    The latest feeling of the French pulse shows that 70% of the population approve of how the new President has performed both on the world and domestic front. Because of the strange voting system it is not certain, but it is looking more likely that his newly formed party could obtain an overall majority in the June parliamentary elections.
    The closest thing I can remember happening in the UK was when the gang of four formed their new party, but in that case there were differences of opinion about leadership, something that Macron doesn't have to worry about.
     
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  12. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    This is also one of the worst traits of nationalism....
     
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  13. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    There is probably no nation in Europe more nationalistic than the French.
     
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  14. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    I think you would need to define nationalism before making a statement such as this.
     
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  15. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried a dictionary?
     
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  16. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    The word has many aspects SH. I would need to know which you are referring to before arguing the case. The word could mean:
    a) Believing that my country is the best and, therefore, has a right to impose its will on all other nations ie. The USA.
    b) Where the 'nation' also corresponds closely to an 'ethnic' entity eg. Japan or Poland - thus making it very hard for an immigrant to feel at home there. (For an immigrant which countries in Europe would be the least attractive - probably Poland and Hungary).
    c) A tendency to put the interests of my country first - maybe with forms of protectionist thinking (possibly some French).
    d) A country where I am likely to be attacked for being different - Russia ?
    e) A country which raises the idea of 'nationhood' with the idea of gaining self rule eg. Catalonia.
    f) A country which also corresponds to a religion eg. Israel.

    So, which aspect are you refering to ?
    English (or British) nationalism is a difficult concept - because it often contains the idea of King (or rather Queen) and country ie. it is difficult to be a republican and a patriot - I cannot stand for, or sing, the national anthem - because I do not want the old battle axe to 'reign over us' for one second longer. To be a real 'English nationalist' could, however also mean abolishing the monarchy - ie. all vestiges of hereditary status (they were, after all, imposed on us initially by the French - to be subsequently handed over to the Hannoverians). So, surely, 'taking back sovereignty' must also involve sending the old battle axe back to Hannover, and reclaiming our long lost Saxon rights ?
     
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  17. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Unbelievable......
     
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  18. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    In order to elaborate a little - nationalism can be positive and negative. What is positive for me will, almost certainly, be negative for you. The aspect of nationalism which is currently most often discussed is the idea of self determination - but why restrict this to politics ? You would say that a nation should control its own government, but say nothing about a nation controlling its means of production. You want to protect us against European laws - but not against cheep Chinese steel or American gene manipulated products. So, if you are a nationalist - then you are one of convenience. Just as Thatcher was - the posturings of nationalism and sovereignty which were used to justify the Falklands were offset against the wholesale privatization of industry - which meant our assets being controlled by Arabs and Americans.
     
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  19. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Nationalism is such a complex concept.

    When people now ask me my nationality I will say British as I have little good to say about being English... mainly to do with yob culture, alcohol filled young people and the perceived arrogance of our Govt in Europe.

    On the other hand I love our green and pleasant land, what is left of it exemplified by the pastoral music of vaughan williams and other......

    One of the reasons I love France is that rural life and values still exist in vast sheaves of the countryside...... People have time for each other etc etc
     
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  20. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Love of homeland is a different thing from nationalism Yorkie. I get the feeling when in a pleasant English country pub after a days wandering through the countryside on a summers day that I 'belong' - the same way that I feel at home with many other aspects of English life - not least the fact that we can have civil debates on here about politics. German football fans debating politics would create mortal offences all round - I am sure of that. Nationalism starts to become nasty when it is connected to zenophobia - or that 'we are the best', or that 'I belong' and you don't. Most of the nation states of Europe are put together in an arbitrary way anyway - most people in Bavaria would identify more with Austria than with the people in Hamburg. Had the separation of Germany been a North- South divide, as opposed to an East-West one, then the wall would still be there.
     
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