Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Sunderland in league one is unsustaiable for a club its size the longer it remains in league one. Something has to give eventually. The coronavirus WILL be having an impact. Furlough does help but the club isn't getting any income from gates etc. It's clear that Donald still has comunication with the Americansas I am sure he said we may go back and ask them to invest more if we get to the Championship. Darragh MacAnthony said on his youtube channel that he would be open to taking a loan from premier league clubs to deal with the financial impact on EFL clubs. By the way nobody knows how long this will go on for. I really can't see how SD wouldn't have to use the loan money at this moment or in the near future. I also don't see anyone else buying us anytime soon given all the uncertainty. Just hope the club doesn't go under. Worst case senario of course. Hopefully there's a takeover sooner rather than later as in STID II is was evident SD can't run it long term. I just hope that FPP or an equivalent end up running the club. I know it's not always 'the grass is greener' but I'd certainly take my chaces at present.
It's clear that Donald still has comunication with the Americansas I am sure he said we may go back and ask them to invest more if we get to the Championship.
Without having had that discussion he wouldn't be able to put that suggestion into the public domain.
There's no way he'd just take a flyer and say it without having an understanding that it's a possibility imo.
I don't see how they can possibly finish the season. Indeed I very much doubt any football will be played at all, be it the end of this season or starting a new season until a vaccine is discovered.
I don't see how they can possibly finish the season. Indeed I very much doubt any football will be played at all, be it the end of this season or starting a new season until a vaccine is discovered.
If they insist on finishing this season it'll almost certainly encroach on the following season.
And let's say the lockdown is lifted at the end of May so the remaining games can be crammed in.
Would Burnley, who can't go down, or qualify for Europe, have a proper pre-season, turn up match fit and give Liverpool a real match ...
... and if they're absolutely hammered, behind closed doors, what would it really achieve. It would just be a predictable trudge to an inevitable conclusion.
And, after 60 years without a trophy, what would happen to Newcastle in the FA Cup ...
... you could easily make the case that it means much more to them than another trophy to Liverpool.
If Liverpool had won the title last season I doubt there'd be such a clamour for them to win it this season.
My view is that it's all a shame but this crisis is bigger than a club coming first in a collection of other clubs.
Sunderland in league one is unsustaiable for a club its size the longer it remains in league one. Something has to give eventually. The coronavirus WILL be having an impact. Furlough does help but the club isn't getting any income from gates etc. It's clear that Donald still has comunication with the Americans as I am sure he said we may go back and ask them to invest more if we get to the Championship. Darragh MacAnthony said on his youtube channel that he would be open to taking a loan from premier league clubs to deal with the financial impact on EFL clubs. By the way nobody knows how long this will go on for. I really can't see how SD wouldn't have to use the loan money at this moment or in the near future. I also don't see anyone else buying us anytime soon given all the uncertainty. Just hope the club doesn't go under. Worst case senario of course. Hopefully there's a takeover sooner rather than later as in STID II is was evident SD can't run it long term. I just hope that FPP or an equivalent end up running the club. I know it's not always 'the grass is greener' but I'd certainly take my chaces at present.
Altogether I estimate we'd lose £750k if no games were played, but assuming the JRS lasts until June (when player contracts run out), we'd gain £650k back from furloughed wages, matchday costs and EFL help.
Basically, there's no way this should cost more than a few hundred grand in the absolute worst case scenario.
We make somewhere around £9m estimated from gate receipts in league one, but a lot of that is paid up front as season cards. A generous estimate is around 4-5000 or £100k paid 'on the door' by non-SC holders. This isn't broken down in the accounts but we have around 23k ST holders and we get 4-5000 more paying per game. I suspect it's more heavily weighted toward ST holders but I'm going with 'worst case'.
We make other money from matchday revenue, but it's also not on a pro-rata basis, so for example we get our revenue from merchandise, sponsorship and stuff like that largely up front (shirt sales etc). If we're again being generous, we might say we make another £2m of our revenue on matchdays, so around 85k per match from corporate tickets and sponsorship of match balls etc..
Which means that at the top end of what is possible to lose from 4 home games, we'd actually lose somewhere in the region of £750,000 from this.
However, in the plus column, the EFL gave us £250k advanced. We have furloughed 25 players, all of the youth team players and coaches. A very conservative estimate is that we save £125k a month from furloughs, or £375k over 3 months if we didn't play another game.
We also avoid around £8k in policing costs, so £30k more in the kitty.
Altogether I estimate we'd lose £750k if no games were played, but assuming the JRS lasts until June (when player contracts run out), we'd gain £650k back from furloughed wages, matchday costs and EFL help.
Basically, there's no way this should cost more than a few hundred grand in the absolute worst case scenario.
We make somewhere around £9m estimated from gate receipts in league one, but a lot of that is paid up front as season cards. A generous estimate is around 4-5000 or £100k paid 'on the door' by non-SC holders. This isn't broken down in the accounts but we have around 23k ST holders and we get 4-5000 more paying per game. I suspect it's more heavily weighted toward ST holders but I'm going with 'worst case'.
We make other money from matchday revenue, but it's also not on a pro-rata basis, so for example we get our revenue from merchandise, sponsorship and stuff like that largely up front (shirt sales etc). If we're again being generous, we might say we make another £2m of our revenue on matchdays, so around 85k per match from corporate tickets and sponsorship of match balls etc..
Which means that at the top end of what is possible to lose from 4 home games, we'd actually lose somewhere in the region of £750,000 from this.
However, in the plus column, the EFL gave us £250k advanced. We have furloughed 25 players, all of the youth team players and coaches. A very conservative estimate is that we save £125k a month from furloughs, or £375k over 3 months if we didn't play another game.
We also avoid around £8k in policing costs, so £30k more in the kitty.
I was just going to post something similar. We are fortunate in that when everything was put on hold, we only had 3 remaining home games, and the majority of our crowd are season ticket holders who have already paid for those games.
Obviously we’ll still lose money, but it should be manageable, unlike other clubs at this level who will be in serious trouble without their match day income.
Altogether I estimate we'd lose £750k if no games were played, but assuming the JRS lasts until June (when player contracts run out), we'd gain £650k back from furloughed wages, matchday costs and EFL help.
Basically, there's no way this should cost more than a few hundred grand in the absolute worst case scenario.
We make somewhere around £9m estimated from gate receipts in league one, but a lot of that is paid up front as season cards. A generous estimate is around 4-5000 or £100k paid 'on the door' by non-SC holders. This isn't broken down in the accounts but we have around 23k ST holders and we get 4-5000 more paying per game. I suspect it's more heavily weighted toward ST holders but I'm going with 'worst case'.
We make other money from matchday revenue, but it's also not on a pro-rata basis, so for example we get our revenue from merchandise, sponsorship and stuff like that largely up front (shirt sales etc). If we're again being generous, we might say we make another £2m of our revenue on matchdays, so around 85k per match from corporate tickets and sponsorship of match balls etc..
Which means that at the top end of what is possible to lose from 4 home games, we'd actually lose somewhere in the region of £750,000 from this.
However, in the plus column, the EFL gave us £250k advanced. We have furloughed 25 players, all of the youth team players and coaches. A very conservative estimate is that we save £125k a month from furloughs, or £375k over 3 months if we didn't play another game.
We also avoid around £8k in policing costs, so £30k more in the kitty.
Altogether I estimate we'd lose £750k if no games were played, but assuming the JRS lasts until June (when player contracts run out), we'd gain £650k back from furloughed wages, matchday costs and EFL help.
Basically, there's no way this should cost more than a few hundred grand in the absolute worst case scenario.
We make somewhere around £9m estimated from gate receipts in league one, but a lot of that is paid up front as season cards. A generous estimate is around 4-5000 or £100k paid 'on the door' by non-SC holders. This isn't broken down in the accounts but we have around 23k ST holders and we get 4-5000 more paying per game. I suspect it's more heavily weighted toward ST holders but I'm going with 'worst case'.
We make other money from matchday revenue, but it's also not on a pro-rata basis, so for example we get our revenue from merchandise, sponsorship and stuff like that largely up front (shirt sales etc). If we're again being generous, we might say we make another £2m of our revenue on matchdays, so around 85k per match from corporate tickets and sponsorship of match balls etc..
Which means that at the top end of what is possible to lose from 4 home games, we'd actually lose somewhere in the region of £750,000 from this.
However, in the plus column, the EFL gave us £250k advanced. We have furloughed 25 players, all of the youth team players and coaches. A very conservative estimate is that we save £125k a month from furloughs, or £375k over 3 months if we didn't play another game.
We also avoid around £8k in policing costs, so £30k more in the kitty.
Even if it's not spot on, it won't be much either way. There'll be some costs/income that won't be factored in, but I think we'll be fine in the short term.
The next potential 'crunch' is not about us but about TV money payments in the summer. Some mutterings that while Sky, BT etc are happy to absorb the missed games at the moment, they won't make any future payments until they know when we'll be back playing. That would seriously impact every club though, so I can't imagine it will be something unique to us.
I suppose it all depends on what we'd budgeted for and I'd expect it's more than an average attendance.
The Peterborough match, and the other if we were in the top 6, would be above average.
That's at least another 5000 people x £20 equaling around another £100,000, it could easily be twice that.
Hoy in some highly attended, televised, play-off games in there and it's more than double the amount.
(I assume for play off games season card holders pay extra.)
I don't know what a Wembley appearance brings in but it's massive to a club in our position.
It is, but it's also likely not budgeted because it's 'extra' and we wouldn't know we had playoff games for a while yet. We pay to go to them so they're a nice bonus, rather than having projected profit/loss.
The overall takeaway is that it shouldn't harm Donald's ability to keep the club running in the short term, and if everything goes to ****, he'll be in the ironically fortunate position of having 75% of his wage bill departing in July.
It is, but it's also likely not budgeted because it's 'extra' and we wouldn't know we had playoff games for a while yet. We pay to go to them so they're a nice bonus, rather than having projected profit/loss.
The overall takeaway is that it shouldn't harm Donald's ability to keep the club running in the short term, and if everything goes to ****, he'll be in the ironically fortunate position of having 75% of his wage bill departing in July.
Even if it was, we're looking at a loss of less than £500k in total, assuming no more help from anywhere else. That won't impact whether he can hold onto the club. He may not be wealthy enough to sustain us forever, but he can absorb this one in the short term.
Even if it's not spot on, it won't be much either way. There'll be some costs/income that won't be factored in, but I think we'll be fine in the short term.
The next potential 'crunch' is not about us but about TV money payments in the summer. Some mutterings that while Sky, BT etc are happy to absorb the missed games at the moment, they won't make any future payments until they know when we'll be back playing. That would seriously impact every club though, so I can't imagine it will be something unique to us.
What would happen next season if no crowds are at games? I can't see the government allowing crowds back to games unless social distancing comes into it. How they do that I have no idea. It's probaby not possible. Online streaming? Very easy these days to watch the game via other methods. My uncle is 71 and has a season ticket and says he won't be risking going to any games until vaccines are available and it is safe to do so.
What would happen next season if no crowds are at games? I can't see the government allowing crowds back to games unless social distancing comes into. How they do that I have no idea. It's probaby not possible. Online streaming? My uncle is 71 and has a season ticket and says he won't be risking going to any games until vaccines are available and is safe to do so.
I think the biggest risk for us is losing multiple revenues from the same household. My mate's mam and dad will get one season pass for their house, or whatever the deal would be, rather than two in the West stand that cost £450. Some people who can't go to the match will buy streams which may offset some of it.
I'd say there's a solid chance that matchday revenue drops by around half once you factor in illegal streams, but it depends how it works.
Even if it was, we're looking at a loss of less than £500k in total, assuming no more help from anywhere else. That won't impact whether he can hold onto the club. He may not be wealthy enough to sustain us forever, but he can absorb this one in the short term.
