Grand Prix thread Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021

I don't agree with the analysis focusing on the inside vs outside. It is the car in front that dictates the line. The car behind has the right to a car's width, but nothing more. If we look at your slow corner example, we would think it ridiculous if a car that only had one wheel alongside at the apex tried to force the leader wide.

The reason slow corners are so different is that driver on the inside in those moves is able to brake late and get to the apex first, thus winning the right to dictate the line on exit. How much space then needs to be given from there is a separate debate. For my money, Max should have been penalised for what he did to Leclerc in Austria 2019.

Corps is a different scenario because there is no braking zone. The corner is flat if you're on the racing line. There's no chance at all for that is trailing on the inside to get in front at any point in the corner without a monumental car advantage. It's also why I'm not convinced that Lewis was trying to back out, he has to brake to make the corner and Max doesn't, so the huge speed difference at the apex is inevitable.

Lewis starts the corner behind and is falling further behind with every meter. From there he should be taking the space he's given, not trying to force the other driver to alter their line. Which is exactly what he does later on. If we compare the incident to Hamilton passing Leclerc, we can see him keeping a lot tighter the second time around. Had he repeated the same line as before, he would have made contact with the Ferrari as well (despite Charles leaving more space than Max).

My view is that Lewis most likely got in too hot and was running a bit wider than he really intended. Max was racing aggressively to the limit of the rules but didn't overstep the mark this time. He would be wise to learn that there's virtue in a bit of caution, however.

 

Interesting. When I looked at it Max moves right on the straight so limiting Lewis's entry angle - which he had every right to do. So Lewis was always going to be very wide on the exit. As you say it does look like Lewis slightly lifted at corner entry as the door was closing.

The real problem I have with the incident was Max's steering. He has Lewis alongside (not fully level but a good deal along side) he steers left away from Lewis as if he had just noticed he hadn't backed out. Then he turns right back towards the racing line, knowing that Lewis was there!

So it looking like Max turned in on Lewis plus the fact that Lewis didn't back out enough makes it a racing incident to me.

 

Deciding that he's entitled to the line and therefore turning in regardless wouldn't be totally out of character I'll concede.

The more charitable explanation would be that he might have been surprised twice. Initially surprised that Lewis went for it, but still thinking Lewis will take a shallow line as he did against Charles later on, then being surprised again when Lewis doesn't make the apex.

That little bit of steering input moved his car from pointing at the apex to pointing one car's width wide. Which makes me think it was a conscious decision to squeeze but not fully turn in on Lewis.

 

I certainly don't think he was trying to turn in to Hamilton. Keep him squeezed possibly, or maybe even seeing him drop back, assumed that he'd fully backed out and went to take the line. He wasn't far off.

They were both trucking in to the corner, neither in the ideal spot for talking the corner cleanly as they would normally, down to the squeeze and the attempt to pass on the inside. At this point it's difficult for Hamilton to quickly vanish. So maybe the alternative was to take it wider, use the run off if need be and come out unscathed. So at that point it's a bit of both for me. Both being super aggressive and both being determined to come out ahead. Unfortunately for Max, he came of worse, when it could have been them both in the kitty litter. Had that happened it may have just been put down as a racing incident.

They both played a part in it for me, part of it down to Max's prior aggression on Saturday and in the run up, and Hamilton's need to say I can play that game too.

 

Apparently RBR have hired a lawyer to look in to their options regarding this. I think all that caffeine has gone to their heads!

Any other drivers and this would be done and gone by now. Even if it was 100% Lewis fault which most people agree it wasn't and was a mix of some kind as to who's at fault, but even so, hypothetically let's just say even if it was 100% on Lewis, I still think it's ludicrous to say it was on purpose. I just can't believe RBR are taking it this far, they're making a mockery of F1. If this was football they'd be fined for bringing the sport into disrepute!

 

Red Bulls handling of this has been appalling from word go. This is racing and sometimes crashes happen.... On a fairly regular basis really. Some just bigger than others. All they have managed to do this past week is remind me why I just can't like the team as a whole. Their behavior is absolutely shocking sometimes.

It's happened, time to put it behind them and look to the future. The lawyering up nonsense just seems really odd and a little desperate, which is weird since the next couple or races should play to their strengths and they could be off stretching their legs again.

The whole thing is baffling.

 

It’s at times like this I wish Bernie was still in charge !

He would have put a stop to this rubbish days ago .

 

I read somewhere that Bernie says he would have tripled Hamilton's penalty, so no, not really.

 

There's a shocker.

 

Bloody hell . Shows what I know …….

 

To be fair, he generally says whatever gets the most attention so he'll probably say something different next week.

https://www.news24.com/wheels/formu...idnt-fit-the-crime-bernie-ecclestone-20210721

 

I take nothing Bernie says seriously. In fact I just mostly ignore it.

 

We have yet to see how the Merc aero changes will work on the coming circuits. In qualifying on Friday lewis was between 2 and 3 tenths faster in sector 1 and 2, he lost a lot in the final sector. I don't feel we can yet predict circuit by circuit.
As for Redbull and Lawyers. I guess the conversation was had with the FIA and they simply said you would have to have a legal basis for any action. Their only complaint really is 'was the penalty too lenient?'. This is like a yellow card vs a red card in football. In fact there is a danger here for all sports, post competition appeals, Maradona and his handball, VAR verified fouls but the disadvantaged team unhappy with the penalty.
The only legal challenge would surely be linked to a deliberate foul. Perhaps the same lawyer could look at all of Max's past actions and enable a re evaluation of his points this season and the last.5. Perhaps criminal charges could be brought against Max for his assault on Ocon.
The Stewards are the referees, I know there is big money, but same is true in football. I guess we will have to wait and see what transpires. It is Horner who is leaving a bad taste, not Max, I think Max is a pawn in this. I am sure this posturing will simply harden the resolve of Mercedes.

 

Max has calmed down a lot but is still quite young and hot headed . Horner should know better as should the Helmet .

I still the RBR will get both championships , put they have just wound MB right up.

 

I've seen people online suggest Hamilton purposefully took out Max... That suggestion is absolutely laughable. The chances of pulling that off and also surviving unscathed are astronomical. Nobody is going to try that without having a substantial lead to protect. So not sure RBR could pursue the angle of it being deliberate.

 

It’s difficult to argue Hamilton took Max out when Hamilton is steering away from Max and Max is steering into Hamilton, unless you think Hamilton deliberately understeered into him. Unfortunately, people bring their own preconceptions to the debate.

 

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-avoid-diving-footballers-christian-horner/

L O L

If anyone was deliberate it would be the guy 33 points ahead, it's illogical for the guy behind to do it.

 

LOL .

He posted that before Silverstone .
The man is a fing hypocrite , but I think we knew that !

 

Max may be young but he’s been driving in F1 for 5 years, so he has no excuse now for his behaviour.

 

im actually trying to be kindish to him , though I find it difficult when he comes out with comments as he has this time .
No . I have just remembered what I posted about him earlier in this thread . F88K. HIM !