Foreign signings

pass the football

pass the football

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Jan 16, 2012
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Now, I know there is an element of risk with any signing, and probably more so with someone you're bringing in from another country, but it seems to me over the last couple of seasons we've bought players in either without knowing very much about them, or who have failed to adapt for some reason.

Tadanari Lee was a player who was signed to great fanfare, and captured the hearts of many fans, but realistically he's really failed to live up to the hype. This got me thinking about some of our other imports:

Steve De Ridder - played a lot as a sub in the championship but impressed only sporadically and was never going to make a lasting impression
Iago Falqué - technically signed from Spurs but he'd only just arrived in the country so I think he counts - barely got on the pitch in a half-season loan
Emmanuel Mayuka - Relatively high-profile signing after an impressive AFCON showing, but has barely played at all
Gaston Ramirez - very high-profile signing who has been given a lot of game time but hasn't really got into his stride yet

On the other hand, Yoshida has done pretty well and Boruc is looking a great signing now, though he had a lot of experience of life in Britain already.

So all in all not a particularly impressive success rate. Compared with the impressive domestic players we have brought in, the likes of Cork, Clyne, Sharp, Steve Davis - all of whom have fit in well and were bargains to boot - our foreign imports are not doing all that well.

I'm hopeful Ramirez will come good and Forren will buck the trend of underwhelming foreign signings, but it does seem to be a pattern.

What could be behind this? Is this kind of disparity between domestic and international transfer success normal, or something to be concerned about? Do other clubs have a similar failure rate for their imports? Or am I just reading too much into it?
 
Not sure it's cause and effect with that sample size. In the cases of De Ridder, Yago and Mayuka, they weren't (you would assume) brought in to walk into a first team position. Last season, De Ridder and Yago couldn't find a way into the side with how well we were playing (and because De Ridder was poor in his "impact sub" role), and this season, Mayuka is, for obvious reasons, behind Lambert and Rodriguez in the pecking order. Not necessarily because they're foreign, but because they were signed to fight for a place and found themselves behind talented players. Ramirez hasn't been quite bad enough to count as a major disappointment.

Yoshida and Boruc however, were brought in for first team football rather than to make an impact from the bench/to fight from the bench for a spot in the first 11, and neither was in a position with high standard competition. Yoshida was brought into the team when Fonte and Hooiveld were leaking absurd amounts of goals, so got his place in the side and did well. Similarly, Gazza and Kelv weren't exactly putting in too sturdy performances and he was always the best keeper on paper.

I wouldn't say other clubs have a similar failure rate just judging by how many foreign players there are in the Premier League!
 
The trouble in some ways may have been our Nigels inexperience of foreign players....just my opinion. We were relying on scouts who were perhaps not up to the way we play our football. Tad Lee didn't play that badly on the occasions I saw him play. Mayuka may have the talent but unfortunately hasn't taken the chances given to him to cause an impression....JMO. De Ridder has been given numerous chances but he is just not up the way we play nor does he have the craft. Guly is a really good player in my view but while he works hard his skills too are not honed in enough to English soccer.
Yoshida has had to play and slowly came of age So at best Nigel seems to have brought in average players as far as the foreigners are concerned, notebly with a couple of exceptions. I purposely left Ramirez out as the jury is still out on this one however he certainly looks the part if we can keep him fit.
 
Nigel Adkins - A Saint! said:
I got slated for saying the same back in August....
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No, you didn't. You said you didn't like foreign players because they got us relegated last time. PTF has said nothing of the sort, but presented (with reasoning and evidence) ideas about why English signings have worked better for us in the Adkins era than foreign signings.
 
Mayuka hasn't been given enough of a chance to impress. Ramirez has impressed in spells and his quality is obvious whenever you see him play. De Ridder was a waste of 1mill. I like Yoshida, he's improved quite a lot since we signed him.
 
tomw19 said:
Mayuka hasn't been given enough of a chance to impress.
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Every day in training isn't enough of a chance? If he isn't playing, there's got to be a reason for that hasn't there? Time will tell whether Pochettino rates him more highly than Adkins did, but if we are to judge him up to this point you'd have to say he's been a worse signing than De Ridder, for 3 times the price.
 
pass the football said:
Every day in training isn't enough of a chance? If he isn't playing, there's got to be a reason for that hasn't there? Time will tell whether Pochettino rates him more highly than Adkins did, but if we are to judge him up to this point you'd have to say he's been a worse signing than De Ridder, for 3 times the price.
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And how do you work that out? De Ridder has had plaenty of chances to impress, and has failed miserably. Mayuka was outstanding in the 2nd half v Spurs and for some reason Adkins never game him a chance after that.
 
tomw19 said:
And how do you work that out? De Ridder has had plaenty of chances to impress, and has failed miserably. Mayuka was outstanding in the 2nd half v Spurs and for some reason Adkins never game him a chance after that.
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Chances to impress whom, exactly? Because even getting onto the pitch suggests he's impressed the coaching staff more than Mayuka has, for whatever reason.

De Ridder played in 32 matches for us last season and contributed 3 goals and 3 assists. He may not have impressed you but that's a concrete contribution. Mayuka's won a penalty and looked good without actually producing anything for one half against Spurs as you say. Great, but that's it. If you think that's worth £3m then I guess he was a good signing.

As I said, he may well become a permanent fixture in the team and score a load of goals, if so then I'll be delighted. But right now, he has done very little to justify his price tag.
 
I have to say Tom PTF has got a point. £3 Million in the scheme of things at this level is not that much. However Mayuka may indeed be the player of the future but ok yes he seemed to be ok in the second half against Spurs but on the other occasons when he came on he didn't impress. Now whether the new style will suite him better who knows......but the jury is well and truly in deliberation as to whether he actually is as good as they say.
 
Mayuka was poor in the AFCON as well. I don't know what's going on with him, but he was a lot better a year ago.
 
I always want to believe everything is right as rain at SMS (my positivity is a character flaw in some people's eyes), but I have been disappointed with quite a few of our signings. We've arrived at a really good team by trial and error. There are also other players who've fallen by the wayside that haven't been mentioned, such as Dickson. Tadanari Lee has skill, but perhaps is not consistent enough or fit enough for us. Mayuka is a mystery...though I hope MP can do something with him. Ramirez is the real deal, but has been plagued by injuries...still have hope for him. De Ridder just isn't good enough for us, even in the Championship. The problem is having players found by scouts and selected by a committee...not really the manager's choice. The British players are more likely to have been seen, so less likely to get a duffer. Have to hope that any players signed in the future have at least been seen by Poch.
 
lamballana said:
Think MP will be very hands on with signings.
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I'd be very surprised indeed if he were.

If you take a look at Lyon (who went from provincial team to European powerhouse in a decade - what we seem to be trying to do) one of the many things they did was to take signings away from the manager. He was just a voice on the committee they used. Their main focus was on looking for players who could be bought for less than they were worth to Lyon and selling players who could be sold for more than they were worth to Lyon.

I'd be amazed if NC was unaware of this as he seems happy to run things efficiently rather than the way they have always been done. I think we'll move much more towards that style of emotion-free purchasing and selling of players. It's efficient and gets results, both goals I associate with NC.
 
It's true that Saints have done remarkably well overall with domestic signings. But I don't think they have done so badly with foreign signings.

Man City or Man U buy foreign players because they are looking for the absolute top talent in the entire world, you can't expect all or even most of that to come from England. However, if a transfer doesn't work out for them it's generally a problem as they pay so much and presumably have their pick of the crop.

Southampton buy foreign players because in most cases the alternative is to buy over-priced mediocre, over-the-hill English players. They're buying two young speculative investments for the price of one fading cash cow.

I also fail to see how Sharp has been great and a bargain and Lee has been disappointing. They were brought in at around the same time for around the same reasons, and both were made "redundant" by the purchase of Rodriguez.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
I always want to believe everything is right as rain at SMS (my positivity is a character flaw in some people's eyes), but I have been disappointed with quite a few of our signings. We've arrived at a really good team by trial and error. There are also other players who've fallen by the wayside that haven't been mentioned, such as Dickson. Tadanari Lee has skill, but perhaps is not consistent enough or fit enough for us. Mayuka is a mystery...though I hope MP can do something with him. Ramirez is the real deal, but has been plagued by injuries...still have hope for him. De Ridder just isn't good enough for us, even in the Championship. The problem is having players found by scouts and selected by a committee...not really the manager's choice. The British players are more likely to have been seen, so less likely to get a duffer. Have to hope that any players signed in the future have at least been seen by Poch.
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Or it could just be Adkins was crap at picking foreign talent?.
 
Ramirez has been off his game for a month. He was excellent against Arsenal and was very good in games before that. I think he has done well and it's a little unfair to put him the bracket with the others.

Maybe Tadanari was signed for the Japanese market exposure?

De Ridder is poor.

Falque - I think it's wrong to even include him as he was a quick, desperate measure with Adam injured at that point.

Mayuka I am very unsure of. In the brief time he's been on the pitch, he just hasn't shown me that he is good enough yet. He outsprinted the Villa defence in the 90th minute and was ok against spurs when the whole team was on fire in that last 20 minutes.
 
The thing is, at the level Southampton is operating at now, none of the transfers matter. They were all players signed for less than Premier League prices with the hope that they *MAY* someday contribute to the Premier League.

The only two players where I think Saints are on the hook as far as judging future transfer success and failure are Jay Rodriguez and Gaston Ramirez. Those were the two players specifically brought in after having been promoted for significant sums with the idea that they were going to be around for the Saints end product. I would say they are at about the same place. Neither one has quite lived up to the billing so far, but both are starting to show their promise. I feel pretty good about both of those moves right now. Not GREAT, but pretty good.
 
I would mention that British players like Hammond, Sharp, etc... have been deemed not good enough for the Premier League, by Saints.

It isn't that signed players don't measure up all the time. We're not talking about Ali Dia anymore. It's that there is such a short time window that they have to impress or they get put on the back burner very quickly. The club has to stay in the Premier League, above all else. Saints can be said to be slightly guilty in their selection policy, but we aren't talking about mature players here, but mostly ones that are still learning. There's a leap of faith required there. Sometimes you hit jackpot, sometimes you hit the deck, yet that player may still be a good 'un in another elite league, or given proper time.

Ramirez was never known for his goal scoring prowess, before he came to Saints, but he was a box to box super skillful midfielder. That doesn't disappear, but gets adapted and improved upon. Since Gaston's arrival, Jack Cork has been transformed, and since Pochettino's arrival, he has been totally galvanised. Steven Davis has been likewise. These players are stepping up a level, and it's great. There is competition in the camp and the players are improving greatly. In truth, we've hardly made a bad signing. Look where the club is.
 
Hammond and Sharp did a job at the level they were signed for and more than justified what we spent on them. Rodriguez is the real standout money-wise as far as domestic transfers go. Apart from him our highest spend is £2m for Clyne!

He's struggled to adapt to playing on the left but has started to show what he's about lately, his ball control has been Lallana-esque at times!

Ramirez has had a few setbacks admittedly, with injury and his family issue, but I'm a bit disappointed by his overall contribution. We spent big money on him and although he's shown signs of immense quality at times, he's only scored three goals and provided 3 assists, the same as De Ridder managed last season in a fraction of the playing time. That's not a particularly impressive comparison!

I hope he can settle in and find his rhythm because at this point he doesn't look worth £12m sadly.
 
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