So mate, and i'm neutral/undecided/fence sitting, as i said, what's your slant on it. What's your reasoning behind keeping Bruce? I'm in favour of giving him the summer and 10 games as stand, but i could easy be swayed, what makes you come down so strongly that side of the line?
I believe strongly that Bruce with the backing of Quinn has built the finest squad I've seen at Sunderland. Remember the crap Keane bought? We have been hampered by injuries to virtually the whole first team. If it turns out Bruce is to blame then yes he should go. If however it's bad luck we live to fight on next year. Even the great Monty lost a few battles to Rommel but we eventually won the war. Patients is a virtue.
Cest has a load of valid points, and iv'e read all the posts on this one with great interest. He's made his mind up about bruce and wil stick too it, good for him. I as you may know am still in the bruce camp, doesn't mean i'm happy about what's going on, far from it. But we have been dealt a cruel hand this season, for one reson or another things havn't gone our way. The bent saga was a complete cock up, but with varying rumours around, we will never know the exact truth on that. The injuries have been exteme, and unforseeable, be it training or just unlucky i don't know. Bruce's failure for me is his lack of presence on the sidelines and then his self pitying interviews after matches. But i'll stand by him as long as he is manager, he wears his heart on his sleeve, a geordie lad takes control off the sunderland team, makes him an easier target than most. He has his faults, but has still given us some cracking miments this season, he got us all believing, when we didn't really expect to be so high up the league. The expectation was 10th, and we started to believe this was the season for us. He managed to aquire what should have been two top notch players, shame only one worked out. but that's life. Perhaps there are higher profile managers around, doesn't mean we could aquire one of them. I'm sure Mr Short will be asking quinny some harsh questions, about what's going on, and if he stands by bruce so will i. If he doesn't so be it, i'll support whatever manager they see fit to replace him with. We are now an established prem club, and next season will try and re-group, and if bruce has their backing, he has mine.
Lots of people will disagree with this, but even Quinn said they had left Bruce in a bad position. He said he was shopping at harrods, and to be fair he has spent a good bit, but then so has everyone else, even Stoke have spent 70 million the past 3 seasons, so we are always playing catch up. We have been in the PL for 5 seasons now, ok most of that only just i know but we are still there and kicking. Everton had an injury crises (and it wasnt even a crysis if we are honest about it, not as bad as ours anyway) and they were 3rd-4th from bottom for most of the start. Chelsea had Terry/Lampard out and went on an 8 game not winning streak and basically lost the title in those weeks. Spurs had an injury problem, they didnt make the top 4 because of it. We have had some good displays, not least at Chelsea, we should have beat liverpool apart from the freak goal, drew against Arsenal away (and that was in the middle of a bad run), so it hasnt been all doom and gloom this season, yes the derbies are best forgotton, they were terrible, but that may have been far to much pressure put on the players by Bruce himself, I very much doubt told them to go out and play that ****e. Injuries have been the killer this season, I dont even think that bent going was that detrimental tbh (apart from the fact we only had gyan as a striker). The other thing as well was stoke away, that knocked the stuffing out of us, now not sure if this is Bruces fault or not, But everytime i see Stoke play, Defenders get between the Goalkeeper and their Attacker so there is space for the Goalkeeper to come out and claim the ball, when we played them, we didnt do that, we stood infront of the attacker and let their attacker bully Gordon, and you could see the fear in Gordons eyes that day lol but i believe that result and the way we lost it, took a lot of the stuffing out of us. If Bruce does go in the summer, I wont cry about it, or say they should have kept him, but i do believe he needs another chance at it, and not everything is Bruces fault, even though a lot on here claim it is.
Cest you're an arrogant arsehole who's arguments failed when you started to make things personal. Me saying that I think people are talking bollocks and ****e isn't a personal attack just opinion. I've already stated my feelings and arguments on other threads so didn't reiterate them on this one.
I fully agree with the strength of the squad statement, the big question for me is over Bruce tactical 'limitations'. Do you feel that he has the potential to develop this area, because that for me is the biggest concern. The injuries have been a big part, but adapting the side to work with the available players, well he's failed on that score.
I took the sanctimonious bit out on reflection, as I thought it was beneath me and unnecessary to the context of the debate. Thats what reasonable and educated people have the capacity to do. However with hindsight and further reflection, it actually suits you well. Act in haste repent at leisure as they say. The phrase is all yours again. The reaction (had you bothered to read it) was to the 'was I there in the 19 point season' taunt, as if that made any difference to a valid viewpoint. I have been there through ALL the ****e, offered by the club since that time, including your weak efforts to engage today but if this was my first season, I'd still have the right to say if I disagreed with club policy. That was my point and not to make myself feel superior. Merely reading your drivel fulfills that requirement with some ease. As for good debate, read Commachios post and see what an intelligent and interesting counter argument actually looks like. In the meantime, go back to your morning reads of the beano and CBBC magazine. There are plenty of pictures to help you out there.
Bruce is still learning his trade no doubt about it. He's far from the finished article. I do however find it harsh to criticize his tactics when they were working very well before xmas with a fit squad. This season is all about the injury list for me. I do hope the club are looking into the training regime to see if that's in any way at fault.
I see those hairs on your bollocks are still just bum fluff then? Just my opinion again of course. Prick?
He's been a manager for 11 years for Christs sake. At what point do you think he will be qualified? These are HIS people, HIS players and HIS tactics.
I do find people who throw personal abuse from the safety of a computer keyboard to be totally lacking in any credibility whatsoever and it has to be said. Just a tad tiresome.
whats wrong with the squad when all are fit its a good squad lets see what next season brings. or we can start all over again and bring a new manager and let him start a new squad. we cant keep replacing managers after 2 seasons
My concern in regards to the 'going well earlier in the season' line is this. Think back, where we ever really playing well? We had some fortunate home wins for sure, and we certainly benefitted from Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Villa and Spurs ALL being below us at one point, this was never realistically going to last. I'd argue we played some of our best football as we started to slip, away to Stoke and first half home to Spurs we played some wonderful football, way better than we had earlier in the season when the points were rolling in. My gut tells me that we are 4 players short, Left back, left mid, and 2 strikers. Ideally we'd get a commanding CB and a GK, as Gordon may never put a run together, and Mignolet is not ready (although he WILL become a great keeper, with a bit (lot) of work on coming for crosses. Thing is, 4 of this potential 6 should have been done by January, 2 of them should have been last summer. Does this fall at the managers door? If so, then he has to take the wrap for the capitulation. I've went off point, apologies, my point was that i don't personally feel that Bruce was getting it 'tactically right' early doors, i more feel that things were going our way. Remember, in the good run, there was a 0-1 at West Brom with was a pathetic display, one of the worst of the season, and a 1-5 humiliation at St James, were the manager went into shell shock at 2-0 and the team didn't respond.
Personally I think Quinn should be here for the long haul as Chairman. (ie. The figurehead of SAFC A job he is very good at) In the background I have a feeling ES will be bringing in some very tough individuals to protect his investment. As for Bruce, I was never a believer but was willing to give him a chance and prove me wrong. This hasn't happened, people have said about our squad being better than ever before. Fair point, so how come they play **** more than they play well? AND! Worse still can go on the pitch and not show any passion? I saw more passion from **** players in the old 3rd division than some of these over paid prima donnas. Bruce is not taking us forward, which is the way I want to go! PS. Lets keep the arguments going without the personal attacks lads, life's too short.
I tend to rise and fall based on the level of my opponent? Currently, with you, I am at ground level and judging by your replies, very unlikely to require a lift for more elevated debate.
Well not all are his. Gordon not his been injured for most of the season Mig, his, but bought as 2nd choice to Gordon, been thrust in at the deep end Bardsley not his, playing out of position, but been arguably our best player Turner his but been crocked for most of the season, and when played arguably not match fit Mensah loan, his, never seems to be match fit, but when he is a rock most of the time Angelari his, Flop maybe, but been injured since pre-season Nedum loan his, great at the start then got injured Bramble his great at start but then got injured (see a pattern emerging here lol) Anton not his, good squad player just lacks concentration for 90 minutes. Ricco not his, good utilty player but doesnt really excel in any of the positions, again injured Cattermole his, flies in a bit and hot headed, but thats what you want from a defensive midfield grafter, if he was just letting players walk by him you wouldnt be happy, again injured Zendon his i think, good player, pace lacking a bit, but when asked to do a job he has Steed not his, great at holding the ball up and taking on players, cant score for toffee though, 84 games without a goal now Henderson, came through the youths, not sure tbh, sometimes fantastic and can take on a man with ease, other times (which lately has been most times) jsut doesnt seem interested and just pases it back/sideways, still has a lot to learn though. Muntari loan his, just didnt really cut it tbh and gone now anyway Riveros his, south american, takes time to adjust, great for paraguay, just hasnt done it for us, time will tell if he gets time that is. Meyler not his, good player, injured Colback, youth looking good prospect so far, but again needs time Elmo his loan, sometimes looks great, others like a ursan bolt (just not as fast), head down byline, no cross, great leap for the ball, but no direction of it (hw wins it most the time but it doesnt go anywhere) Sess his looking better and better every game, but he isnt a striker Campbell dont think is his, still young, quick, agile, has lots of potential again injured and badly Welbeck loan his, got great potential, injured Gyan, his, wish he played for us like he did for Ghana at wembly, can go missing in games like most strikers, but needs service, again injured so 9 players are his most are injured
MM Don't they say it's the sign of a good team to win when not playing well? I agree about the requirement for four new players over the summer. With regards to whether we should have bought in January. Transfers are notoriously complicated and secretive. We will never be privy to the full facts of who we are after and just how close we get to targets that don't come off. The big issue for me is the injuries. We must get our first team fit and do everything we can to keep them fit. Bruce should be given 10-15 games at least next term. With a (hopefully) fit squad and a few new signings I see next season being a marked improvement. Even Fergie was heading for the chop at one point.
