Wasn't saying you specifically were mate lol, meant it in a general England/ Britain aspect. I do truly appreciate that it's disrespectful but I just don't take much notice of it, they've gone out of the way to pay and design a banner that with all respects, is nowhere near as insulting as other forms of abuse we've received in the past. To me, they've mugged themselves of us more so than us. LOL! LET'S HAVE ITTT! I do actually have an Uncle who was part of the Spurs firm back in the 70s and 80s though that **** isn't for me. If you're gonna have a fight have a fight for a valid reason, not just because there's a bunch of fans who support a different team to you.
The Partizan fans are extreme (just witness the eternal derby against Red Star) and will behave racially against anyone. Pussies is a well used insult by Serbian fans against anyone they don't like. I think we did well to get out of there unharmed.
The best way to punish them, in light of the commentators factoid about them producing more top talent than anyone bar Ajax, is to set up a special relationship with them and harvest all their quality.
Of course there's worse they could've done but to most people a banner like that, or chanting "Jewish Tottenham" is a thinly veiled anti-semitic dig. They're not doing it as a statement of fact, are they, if they were they'd be the first fans to just start chanting facts about the opposition without any wish to cause offence. What do you think they're going to chant next "Tottenham wear navy shorts", or are the fans that started monkey chanting our black players going to raise a Palestinian flag to further the implied anti-semitic insult? Well they did the latter. Ajax don't identify themselves as the Yid Army and are subject to the same abuse, just as we were before we took up the term. I can't believe we're going through this again, we don't have to change a thing, the chants we use derive from the time when anti-semitism abuse from opposition fans was rife and totally unpunished. It might not be as common or vocal in the Premier League now but it still exists and still goes with little to no punishment so the sentiment in our chants is valid, as a rallying cry and a sign of togetherness. You don't get anywhere by letting anti-semitism or racist abuse be ignored, we tried that, the reason such abuse has gone down is because it's not tolerated and is punishable. The more we let go the more it will be allowed to creep back into the game. Oh God, so now it's being oversensitive to react to fans using our perceived status as a Jewish club as an insult just because they didn't directly reference an out and out anti-semitic sentiment. I suppose you think "black ****" isn't racist because referring to someone as "black" isn't directly racist and neither is the word "****". What about all the black people getting disproportionately stopped by police, is any negative reaction to that is just the politically correct getting all up in arms about nothing. It can't be racist unless they stopped them and called them a "******", right? You can see the reaction of myself and many others as politically correct and oversensitive but to me, your point of view is just sticking your head in the sand and waiting for it to get worse.
F**ing hell you've gone way over the top, completely overreacting over a petty little banner and my post(s). What relevance has calling someone a black c**t got to do with this silly little only fools and horses piss take of Jews and Pussies? I said in my initial post that if the banner stated actual racial abuse then strong action should be taken, they've called us Jews and Pussies, ones somewhat a fact of who we embrace ourselves as and the other is a s**t insult and yet you somehow think I'd find calling someone a black c**t as acceptable and not racist? The fact you'd imply that is f**ing insulting and an absolute joke, don't ever try and judge my character simply because I haven't thrown my toys out the pram from a banner made by Eastern European hooligans who clearly have more money than sense when designing the silly thing. Ajax have Super Joden (Super Jews) chants and proudly wear and parade star of David flags amongst fans. Racism, anit-Semitism, homophobia etc will always be around, we'll never rid it for good as much as we'd like too but in certain cases we can look down on it and laugh at the narrow-minded perpetrators, getting worked up over petty banners just lets the idiots win, they're getting the exact response they wanted off of Spurs fans. My point of view is to simply not get worked up over it, why allow those idiots to win and ruin your mood?
Context. No, black isn't necessarily racist. Calling anybody a **** is, however, somewhat liable to cause offence!! Whatever their colour.
Sorry SoS, but I don't think that us using Yids or Ajax calling themselves Super Jews should lessen their intended insult. They didn't add anything to the word Jews because they think that it's a bad thing on it's own. Just because Dr Dre was in NWA, it doesn't mean that anyone calling him the first initial isn't being racist or offensive. Should we go mental at the banner? No, it's quite petty, as you rightly point out. Should the club be punished for it? Of course. It seems to be becoming something of a theme that we're drawn against clubs in the Europa who have a history of dubious, racist ultras. It can't just be about the countries that we're being paired up with either, as it's happened all over the place. Probably highlights how much we've progressed in this country, though we're far from perfect, but UEFA might need to do something that'll actually make a statement.
Oh come on, you know I wasn't saying you find calling someone a "black ****" acceptable. I was applying your logic of taking each word seperately and at face value to point out why the logic doesn't stand. Do you really look at that banner and think they're not insulting us by our association as a Jewish club? Fair enough on Ajax, I didn't realise they had that chant. The point still stands, however, the anti-semitism predates us taking up the identity of the Yid Army and that's a fact you cannot simply set aside. Anti-semitism is a nasty business and that's why it's treated seriously seemingly everywhere except football. It doesn't stand as an excuse either, as PNP said. Racism, homophobia and other discrtimination will likely exist for a long time in some small part but that doesn't mean we can't take action to reduce it. Punishing only the overt racism simply allows thinly veiled racism/anti-semitism/homophobia like this banner to become common place. They don't care what words they use so long as the message is sent to those they're trying to intimidate/insult. Yid didn't start as a derogatory term but it was able to become one because the context it was used in became increasingly insulting and belittling. Ignore the context and we're just clumsily banning terms that on their own are simply words, which can be used in a spectrum of ways(not all insulting) but if you address the context then you're taking into account the sentiment behind them, which is the real issue to start with.
On the subject of anti-Semitism, Assou-Ekotto's been given a three match ban and fined £50k for supporting Anelka's quenelle gesture an absolute age ago. How does he even serve it now? Do only domestic cup games count against the ban or something?
No of course not but I think by us and Ajax plus any other sides similar that have associations with Jewish and any other similar backgrounds, we should be somewhat braced for the insults from idiots and look above them rather than allowing them to affect us - even though we shouldn't have too, but the world will never be free from abuse and so I say stand up and laugh in the face of it. Similar to Dr Dre, if he's putting/ put himself in a position where he associates himself with the N word like the NWA title, not that I'm saying it's right but he'll need to expect that dickheads out there will abuse him for it and that it's best to look past it rather than allow it to bring him down. As we all know, we adopted the Yid chant by turning it from negative abuse to positive association, so when people like the Partizan t**t makes a banner that says Jews, we should just smile and be proud of it, rather than get worked up, we know UEFA will take action too so at the end of the day, I'd say we come out on top. At the time it felt as though you were implying it, though I appreciate now you weren't . I look at the banner and laugh to be honest, as I said to Spurs Disciple, the fact that whoever designed and made that banner has obviously spent a bit of money on it is laughable in my opinion and that's why I personally don't see the point in getting worked up because it'll just play into their hands, that's the sort of reaction they'd want, I want the bullies to know that their childish antics don't affect us. It should never be unpunished but I believe to certain extents it could be more ignored by the targeted audience, if we show it doesn't affect us then I believe the perpetrators will only look even more stupid for trying to insult people who won't take offence. For me, the more we react to it, the more it will provoke responses from the idiots as they know it gets to us. In all honesty though, regardless of what we do we will never fully prevent it, that's the sad thing.
In other news...Stambouli looked impressive in the first half. Then he had his ankle stepped on twice in the same foul (which the ref didn't think was worth a booking) and he seemed to disappear from the game after that - which would probably explain why we stopped pressing in the second half until Capoue came on. In retrospect, Capoue should've replaced him ten minutes into the second half.
One of the simple things that impressed me about Stambouli was his willingness to play passes with both feet. It speeds up the play so so much IMO. Bentaleb for example is a good passer of the ball but I get the sense that sometimes players just keep him on his left foot and shut out half the pitch as a passing option because of that (we have similer problems with Dembele and Capoue who are similarly one-footed) whereas having a player comfortable playing even simple passes with either foot can open up so many more passing opportunities and speed up the attacking play. I'd hesitate to compare to Modric, and I don't really want to because they are very different players, but we haven't had a player truly willing and able to pass off either foot since he left, except maybe Eriksen who however plays higher up the pitch. Stambouli also impressed me with his athleticism and technical ability. A promising first start to be sure.
A day later the game doesn't seem so bad. Pochettino held his nerve, changed all ten outfield players, and they did what they needed to do, which is get a point in very trying circumstances. The attacking four were all bad, but the rest of the team wasn't, and Stambouli had a good debut. I am a little concerned how reliably bad we look when teams clog the middle. It seems to me the only response to that should be to get the ball wide and cross quickly while sending runners at the goal, and to keep doing that till the defenders spread out.
Stambouli looks to have a bit of flair to his game alongside his defensive abilities doesn't he? A few tasty spins and Cruyff turns caught the eye.
I agree with not reacting at the time but if the club start getting punished then it discourages anymore incidents.
https://twitter.com/TalkingTHFC/status/513011234669883392/photo/1 This source is saying they relaid their pitch yesterday. I can't find out where the info comes from. Wouldn't surprise me though.
To be fair, a newly laid pitch needs time to settle or it cuts up loads and wouldn't have been much better. I doubt it was a cynical tactic like West Ham growing the grass long.
please log in to view this image The surface actually looks a little less bobbly! I'm sure this happened to us before. Can't think of who it was against, though.
UEFA have decided to punish our opponents in this tie for their anti-Semitic banner. Partizan have been fined €40,000 and will have to play their next Europe League home game with one section of the ground closed. No idea how many seats this actually loses them, though. Not much of a punishment, really.
