Falling out of love

Do you mean British or English wines? I believe British wines are made from imported grapes, whereas English wine is made from local grapes. I visited a wine producer near Malvern recently...I enjoyed all 5 of the wines they produced. Am absolutely no wine expert as I tend to like sweeter wines, but I enjoyed the fruity drys from the Broadfield Estate. The owner said Sussex was the best place for grapes in England. Wine was pricey which is what you'd expect from a small producer, but worth it on occasion if you find one you like.

 

That sums it up nicely.

 

The problem is IMHO, is the SKY money - it all stems from there, it means supporters, especially in the PL become less required by the teams. This has lead players to become more like commodities rather than heroes with the players themselves measuring themselves more in their net worth rather than acomplishments.
Add to that the constant speculation in the 24/7 media and the ease for fans to communicate their woes and misinformed opinion to larger audience leads to more cynasism.
The net effect is the yo-yo of emotions (as well as places) for many teams and their supporters. There is no appetite to change the money situation to the larger extent, so that leaves supporters having to adjust expectations for and from their teams. Players are now assets. Contracts are just measure of the asset value. Fans are there to provide an atmosphere for tv audiences.

Fans have lost a lot of battles recently against the football hierarchy but the war is not over. It will swing back the other way, but I don't believe it will ever go back fully, there are too many commercial interests in keeping the money train chugging.
Stu

 

You soppy old date, you

 

I am not sure what it is you're saying "will swing back the other way?" Could you elaborate please? Maybe I am being dumb.

 

I just could never fall out of love with football. Anyone still here after 2009 won't either. If you can get through that 4 months from April to July 2009 and still love the Saints, you ain't going nowhere.

 

I used to be proud to support Saints (you know, a proper team), but now I am proud of Saints. A subtle difference but reflects how many good boxes Saints have ticked now.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of football counter culture was to appear, like hooliganism. There's a lot of people fed up with paying 40 quid for a ticket to watch a bunch of cheats who don't care for the team.

 

When the season is over we shall have to have more off-topic discussions like this Fran!! I am quite certain there are some serious wine lovers on this site!!! As the summer progresses I shall have to tell you about Mallorca's finest and value for money. Don't know about you but I have switched from red during the winter to summer whites and rosados. It is 30 here today and in theory we have another month before the official start of summer.

 

There are only two wines worth drinking. Gigondas and Ribera del Duero. You can keep all of the rest. After that it has to be a glass of Laphroaig although at a push I will drink bourbon. Would I drink anything else? Probably yes but I wouldn't like it anywhere near as much.

 

Laphroaig is over-rated, a trend that came. So many better single malts.

 

Two words: Caol Ila.

Sublime.

 

Sullivans Cove, a Tasmanian whisky, is highly rated by my Australian friends who enjoy tipple but I haven't had the chance to try it yet.

 

I think it won whisky of the year last year. I saw it on a program (Rick Stein).

 

Agreed. As to the pendulum swinging back the other way, I assume you are referring to fans boycotting games, protesting and indeed setting up replacement clubs [FC United, for example]. There is a great deal the club fan can do, but they must be... er, united when they do it. It would be an incredible indictment of a club if, for example, its entire regular home support decided to stay out of the stadium as a protest. Do that for several matches and chairmen start to look up from their pinot noir. Of course the power is with the PL, the clubs, the sports media, etc... because they are all pulling in a similar direction, and getting paid to do so, and the supporters are altogether ready, for the most part, to follow. So, as you say, the pendulum will never swing back fully.

I still remember the comment from a Serie A chairman [maybe Juventus] who said that one day they'll have to bus load in the supporters for free to give the TV audience an atmosphere to the match. Now that's from someone within the industry already foreseeing the demise of the proper stadium supporter.

 

Hi TSS, thanks for answering that question I posed to SaintStu ..... what I am not clear on is what the swinging of the pendulum does or gives us? What is the goal? I am just not clear on what this is aimed at achieving, beyond better prices. It is not going to change the money in the game or player loyalty, which appear to be the biggest gripes here.

 

I think the examples of Blackpool, and Newcastle in a different direction, are both illustrations of where the clubs take no heed of the home supporters. Those might be extreme examples, but it is happening to lesser extent elsewhere. How many times have supporters commented about high ticket prices..? If the clubs halved the ticket prices they'd be absolutely fine. Can you see them doing it though..?

 

No I can't see them doing that, although it is interesting that the first time for a noticeable time, a lot of Prem clubs are reducing some prices.

Is there anything else that the swinging pendulum is going to create? I was just checking I hadn't missed something else SaintStu was referring to, when he said the "problem IMHO is the Sky money" .... we seemed at that point to be talking about player loyalty and fans love of clubs. I don't love my club any more (I nearly typed 'anymore' ) or any less because of the money or the players leaving more or less (do they leave any less than they used to???)

My hero was Steve Williams - he left to join Arsenal
Kevin Keegan had a big part to play in my younger saints days - he stayed two seasons
The 76 Cup final team - only two of the played in the 79 league cup final.
Alan Shearer - left just before the Sky money hit
Mick Channon - was tempted away to City (ok, he came back)
Danny Wallace - to United
Mark Wright to Derby
Peter Shilton came and went

There haven't been that many in my time who stayed the course.

Le Tissier, Nick Holmes, Dodd, Benali, Claus (once he arrived) ... and probably one or two more I have overlooked.

My point is, that has the Sky money made any difference in terms of player loyalty? - I don't really think it has; we just like to think it has. What the modern rich game has done though, is move the players from being very well off people not that far removed from normal people, into super rich millionaires who have zero touch with the normal person.

 

Personally, I think the TV money has made a huge difference and not all of it bad. And certainly, when you look at St Mary's stadium you can't fail to be slightly impressed. That was funded, not so much by TV money directly, but by the prospect of acquiring more, and of course, when it was built the stadium supporter was still a mainstay of most clubs finances. But clubs have invested on the prospect of more and more TV money. If any supporter thinks the latest deal is the best they're going to get then hold onto your scarves because it will be dwarfed sooner rather than later.

It's very nice to put a side to the personal story from the past, but we are going into uncharted territory. The area being that stadium supporters will increasingly become unnecessary apart from the show. Then where will the club allegiance be..?

 

Agree with your first paragraph, although it is moving away from the point I raised, that SaintStu had raised ... player loyalty and fans allegiance.

I just don't get your last point. The supports will always be necessary because of "the show"... who is going to pay billions of bucks for "the show" that is played out in an empty stadium every week - nobody. The fans in the stadium are not important in terms of finance at the top, however they are very important for "the show"

Is your very last point questioning fans allegiance to a club, or vice versa? I wasn't sure.