F1 2012 (Game)
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This thread is alien territory for me, so I should first say that I don't know what I'm talking about.
However, several years ago, I was present at some side-show put on by, I believe, Codemasters (if memory serves me well). My hopes and expectations were, I thought, reasonable. I'd tried Gran Turismo, which I thought gave a pretty good feel and was a thorough effort by a Japanese car nut who's also raced a bit. Unfortunately, the Codemasters game was absolute garbage. I cannot remember what it was but I was seriously unimpressed. Apparently there were codes you could 'win', which, if entered correctly at the appropriate time would give you an artificial advantage. Bizarre! Putting aside this peculiar idea which seemed to promote the concept of cheating, the feel of the game was very artificial and, unlike the Japanese game, very unlike driving a real car.
Suffice to say that it was almost impossible even to pretend to look impressed. I had the overwhelming feeling that either enthusiastic kids would probably feel ripped off; or worse still, that I was totally out of touch with enthusiastic young 'drivers'. Either way, I was scratching my head at what the game was actually trying to achieve.
With a great sense of relief, I escaped at the first opportunity â hoping I'd not made my feelings too obvious to those who'd put the work inâ¦
It was a very forgettable experience, only vaguely remembered, thanks to the development of this thread.
However, several years ago, I was present at some side-show put on by, I believe, Codemasters (if memory serves me well). My hopes and expectations were, I thought, reasonable. I'd tried Gran Turismo, which I thought gave a pretty good feel and was a thorough effort by a Japanese car nut who's also raced a bit. Unfortunately, the Codemasters game was absolute garbage. I cannot remember what it was but I was seriously unimpressed. Apparently there were codes you could 'win', which, if entered correctly at the appropriate time would give you an artificial advantage. Bizarre! Putting aside this peculiar idea which seemed to promote the concept of cheating, the feel of the game was very artificial and, unlike the Japanese game, very unlike driving a real car.
Suffice to say that it was almost impossible even to pretend to look impressed. I had the overwhelming feeling that either enthusiastic kids would probably feel ripped off; or worse still, that I was totally out of touch with enthusiastic young 'drivers'. Either way, I was scratching my head at what the game was actually trying to achieve.
With a great sense of relief, I escaped at the first opportunity â hoping I'd not made my feelings too obvious to those who'd put the work inâ¦
It was a very forgettable experience, only vaguely remembered, thanks to the development of this thread.
the Best F1 games were done by Geoff Crammond who approached it from a totally different angle than anyone else, he wanted the physics of the game to be the number one priority, rather than the graphics or the licensing. Sadly GP4 went on sale before it was properly finished to try and save Microprose but it went bust anyway and GP4, still arguably the closest F1 experience never fully reached it's potential, although many fans have patched it as well as they can. A real shame.
As to Gran tourismo, pff, I had the first 3 versions and got bored, what's so hard about driving a car you can't damage? just drive flat out in a 2000bhp pikes peak special and smah your way around the corners. the codemasters F1 series are Video Games, not simulators, how much fun would people have on a simulator? race over by the first corner, Codemasters learned that lesson in Toca, people don't have fun constantly resetting, 1 dickhead in an online race and it's ruined for everyone (and there's nearly always 1 dick). Codemasters make pretty good GAME, with a very broad appeal, they don't make a simulator that few people would be able to drive properly because they wouldn't make much money
As to Gran tourismo, pff, I had the first 3 versions and got bored, what's so hard about driving a car you can't damage? just drive flat out in a 2000bhp pikes peak special and smah your way around the corners. the codemasters F1 series are Video Games, not simulators, how much fun would people have on a simulator? race over by the first corner, Codemasters learned that lesson in Toca, people don't have fun constantly resetting, 1 dickhead in an online race and it's ruined for everyone (and there's nearly always 1 dick). Codemasters make pretty good GAME, with a very broad appeal, they don't make a simulator that few people would be able to drive properly because they wouldn't make much money
Try doing the Sebastian Vettel challenges in GT if you don't think it's hard! Them things if you're not ready will make you cry 
Thanks Miggins.
As I said, I really don't know what I'm talking about. The Gran Turismo thing was an event held in the old, historic town of Le Mans. I was not aware of the 'no damage' you mention: perhaps because it felt quite realistic, I didn't crash! But certainly, I would expect damage to be a necessary element – or at least some form of penalty for errors – if the errors themselves are not sufficient.
I've never played an 'on-line' racing game either. My only concern is that they actively encourage (rather than discourage) becoming involved in motor racing. And, so far as I'm concerned, the more realistic the experience, the better. A game designer who's actually raced is, I feel, more likely to do a better job.
It sounds like the Geoff Crammond effort was the sort of thing I'm getting at. But at the same time, I do recognise that a realistic simulation will be very difficult to master (especially if it is F1!) and that this could become discouraging for all but the few with real and exceptional talent, and the available time to study its necessarily exacting minutiae.
Obviously a game can never seriously approach a 'real' simulator. Ha! What a contradiction in terms that is! But from the brief experience of Gran Turismo, I was impressed that it was able to give a pretty good experience (at least to someone who doesn't crash!).
I suppose what I'm getting at is that a £30 CD inserted into a few hundred quid of hardware, can never compete with a professional piece of kit costing £100,000+ ! (If you ever get chance to try one of these transportable simulators which you may find at track-side for big events, DO IT!) Thus, my hopes and expectations that these things (or something approaching them) could ever be affordable to the public are totally unreasonable; and I was probably unfair on Codemasters for what I felt was a woeful attempt.
As I said, I really don't know what I'm talking about. The Gran Turismo thing was an event held in the old, historic town of Le Mans. I was not aware of the 'no damage' you mention: perhaps because it felt quite realistic, I didn't crash! But certainly, I would expect damage to be a necessary element – or at least some form of penalty for errors – if the errors themselves are not sufficient.
I've never played an 'on-line' racing game either. My only concern is that they actively encourage (rather than discourage) becoming involved in motor racing. And, so far as I'm concerned, the more realistic the experience, the better. A game designer who's actually raced is, I feel, more likely to do a better job.
It sounds like the Geoff Crammond effort was the sort of thing I'm getting at. But at the same time, I do recognise that a realistic simulation will be very difficult to master (especially if it is F1!) and that this could become discouraging for all but the few with real and exceptional talent, and the available time to study its necessarily exacting minutiae.
Obviously a game can never seriously approach a 'real' simulator. Ha! What a contradiction in terms that is! But from the brief experience of Gran Turismo, I was impressed that it was able to give a pretty good experience (at least to someone who doesn't crash!).
I suppose what I'm getting at is that a £30 CD inserted into a few hundred quid of hardware, can never compete with a professional piece of kit costing £100,000+ ! (If you ever get chance to try one of these transportable simulators which you may find at track-side for big events, DO IT!) Thus, my hopes and expectations that these things (or something approaching them) could ever be affordable to the public are totally unreasonable; and I was probably unfair on Codemasters for what I felt was a woeful attempt.
Agree with Miggins, GT is a game, not a simulators. It's a very fun game, one with different difficultly levels built in, but it's nothing compared to some race simulators.
The current king of the simulators at the moment is iRacing, but it’s so expensive it’s really only for the hard core sim racer. There are a few others that look promising, like rFactor2, but if you want a no holds bared sim racer, you need to try iRacing. If anyone is interested there are a few 3 month trails going around, I could post a link up.
edit - Cosicave reminded me about what the pros use, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams etc all use the engine from either rFactor or iRacing for their massive, state of the art rigs. They are also starting to very slowly, releases there old data. An old Williams F1 car is included within iRacing, McLarens 2010 car has been released for one of the sims, and Ferrari have release their own version.
So, you can use the same software as the current F1 teams, but you won't have the moving rig and wrap around screens that they use.
The current king of the simulators at the moment is iRacing, but it’s so expensive it’s really only for the hard core sim racer. There are a few others that look promising, like rFactor2, but if you want a no holds bared sim racer, you need to try iRacing. If anyone is interested there are a few 3 month trails going around, I could post a link up.
edit - Cosicave reminded me about what the pros use, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams etc all use the engine from either rFactor or iRacing for their massive, state of the art rigs. They are also starting to very slowly, releases there old data. An old Williams F1 car is included within iRacing, McLarens 2010 car has been released for one of the sims, and Ferrari have release their own version.
So, you can use the same software as the current F1 teams, but you won't have the moving rig and wrap around screens that they use.
As Miggins says, they're just games – similar to the Dark Knight Rises (or whatever) in being a brand tie-in. If you're inclined to suspend your disbelief they can be exciting in their own right but they have as much to do with simulation or actual driving as buying a Ferrari t-shirt. It's just merchandise. The best video games exist on the premise that they're video games, not an attempted replication of something else.
That's very interesting, HappyAl. I was not aware of this development in the gaming market. It could bridge the gap, facilitating the sort of difference flight-simulators can make to those working on Private Pilot's Licences etc.
The iRacing thing sounds like a genuine move in the right direction.
Yes please: post a link!
Not wanting to sound like I am from the Turn 10 promotion division, as far as accessible race simulation goes I have yet to come across something that beats the Forza series of games for the Xbox, especially their latest installment.
Cosi if you ever have the chance to give it a go I suggest you try it out. If you have a chance to have a go with a wheel and pedals even better as they have a clutch manual options now for those who want to give heel-toe clutch work a go.
Great insight to car set up as you customise car upgrades for grip circuits v power circuits, then set up the car through all manner of adjustments e.g. camber, ride height, gear ratios, tyre pressure, damper stiffness etc. They enlisted Pirelli in their development of their physics model for their tyres Forza 4.
I'm not a big fan of turn 10 themselves as they shafted me for a DLC code for Forza 3 and they are Nazis on their forum (I'm still in premod) but the quality of their product is impressive.
Cosi if you ever have the chance to give it a go I suggest you try it out. If you have a chance to have a go with a wheel and pedals even better as they have a clutch manual options now for those who want to give heel-toe clutch work a go.
Great insight to car set up as you customise car upgrades for grip circuits v power circuits, then set up the car through all manner of adjustments e.g. camber, ride height, gear ratios, tyre pressure, damper stiffness etc. They enlisted Pirelli in their development of their physics model for their tyres Forza 4.
I'm not a big fan of turn 10 themselves as they shafted me for a DLC code for Forza 3 and they are Nazis on their forum (I'm still in premod) but the quality of their product is impressive.
Here is a link for 3 months free. You need to register on this site and fill out a form. It does work in teh UK, as that's what I'm running.
https://cadillaccupracing.com/
edit - sorry, forgot to include a link to iRaceing website, you'll need to sign up via the Cadillac site first, but you can read a little more about iRacing.
http://www.iracing.com/
You only get a handful of cars and tracks with the free stuff, to take part in the race series you'll need to spend some cash on different tracks or cars. It'll get very expensive quite quickly.
Here is a link to the Ferrari virtual academy. WHere you can try to beat Massa's time
http://www.ferrarivirtualacademy.com/game/en/index.jsp
And here is McLarens version, you can drive the 2010, and 1988 McLaren (and a few others)
https://www.simraceway.com/
Hope that helps, I don't know much about the other sims but I know that iRacing is considered the best.
EDIT - Also included the link to rFactors website. I don't know much about rFactor, but I believe it's the physics engine that is currently used by most of the F1 teams, certainly the McLaren and Ferrari versions above are using the rFactor engine.
http://rfactor.net/
https://cadillaccupracing.com/
edit - sorry, forgot to include a link to iRaceing website, you'll need to sign up via the Cadillac site first, but you can read a little more about iRacing.
http://www.iracing.com/
You only get a handful of cars and tracks with the free stuff, to take part in the race series you'll need to spend some cash on different tracks or cars. It'll get very expensive quite quickly.
Here is a link to the Ferrari virtual academy. WHere you can try to beat Massa's time
http://www.ferrarivirtualacademy.com/game/en/index.jsp
And here is McLarens version, you can drive the 2010, and 1988 McLaren (and a few others)
https://www.simraceway.com/
Hope that helps, I don't know much about the other sims but I know that iRacing is considered the best.
EDIT - Also included the link to rFactors website. I don't know much about rFactor, but I believe it's the physics engine that is currently used by most of the F1 teams, certainly the McLaren and Ferrari versions above are using the rFactor engine.
http://rfactor.net/
So, it's an on-line simulator, as opposed to a games console? I'll check out the links later. No time at present.
Thanks.
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Thanks.
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I don't really get to play games much these days but I've always been a fan of Forza. I spent most of my time having group F races online as you just get lunatics in the higher groups, that said the voting system for kicking out the fools is always useful.
Gran Turismo 5 is the best racer at the moment in my opinion on a console followed by Forza 4.
A Sauber Mercedes C9, on the old Le Mans style track with no traction control or ABS for kicks really gives me a challenge that no F1 game can give.
A Sauber Mercedes C9, on the old Le Mans style track with no traction control or ABS for kicks really gives me a challenge that no F1 game can give.
Interesting Silver.
The Mercedes C9 was a hell of a car but rather heavy on fuel, I think. Knowing the degree of realism is only possible by direct comparison with the real thing, of course, but are you able to progress through other models you are more familiar with, so as to get a fuller appreciation of its realism?
I know this is a difficult (if not impossible) question to answer, but if you are able to make a comparison with something you are familiar with to begin with, it should be possible to progress up through various models in order to get a sense of it.
What do you reckon?
The Mercedes C9 was a hell of a car but rather heavy on fuel, I think. Knowing the degree of realism is only possible by direct comparison with the real thing, of course, but are you able to progress through other models you are more familiar with, so as to get a fuller appreciation of its realism?
I know this is a difficult (if not impossible) question to answer, but if you are able to make a comparison with something you are familiar with to begin with, it should be possible to progress up through various models in order to get a sense of it.
What do you reckon?
My last car is on Forza, was pretty weird racing around tracks in what essentially was my daily commute. I rarely got to drive that car unrestricted but the Forza representation of what it was capable of was relatively on par. When simple things such as tyres or how well serviced a car is can play a massive role no game will be exactly right.
I believe Top gear (JC) did a race with a NSX at Laguna Seca a few years ago. Jeremy set the lap on GT3 at home and then went out there to see if he could do it for real.
SilverArrow:3249997 said:
going to have to agree to disagree here. Old mulsanne is a beastly track however, and with a beastly car in the Mazda 787b it's unbridled joy
I'm sure everyone will disagree when it comes to GT and Forza. The Sony-ers will say GT is best and the Microsoft-ers will say Forza. I'm a Ps3er so I say GT. I've played Forza round a friends and in my opinion it was meh, but i havent really played it long enough.
As long as you dont use overpowered cars in GT5, the game is really fun, especially the special challenges.
As long as you dont use overpowered cars in GT5, the game is really fun, especially the special challenges.
been on some linked up simulators a year or so ago, £35 for approx 20 mins (10mins quali, 10 mins racing) was good fun, except when I got rebooted before the start and smashed my head on the frame when the hydraulics reset. I found the ride a bit too smooth tbh, and took a 2 or 3 laps to get used to powering out of the hairpin, needless to say I ripped everyone a new one (pole by 3 secs, lapped the field in the race) but, tbh, I prefer spending the money going Karting at Buckmore (especially when it's wet)