It might be a bit early to throw him in there but I'd rather him than Lovren.
Everyone's Depressed!
- Thread starter DirtyFrank
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It might be a bit early to throw him in there but I'd rather him than Lovren.
I really don't understand the Illori thing. He was never given a ****ing chance.
Can everyone cheer up on the whole Ilori deal?
Scenario: The guy's as good as everyone on here says he is, does fantastically on loan at Aston Villa, they want to buy him. Sounds like something that happened this summer with Aldeweireld - widely publicised option to buy deal. What happened? Atletico got him back without any issue - albeit to sell him to Spurs... At any rate, I think that shows how much water these clauses hold - none for the buying team.
These clauses are usually used by the selling team to force a team to buy a player - even when they don't perform. It'll be there for the situation that he goes there, plays 20 games and looks bang average. then we make our money back.
Trust me, if he goes and looks great, Liverpool will NOT be selling him.
Scenario: The guy's as good as everyone on here says he is, does fantastically on loan at Aston Villa, they want to buy him. Sounds like something that happened this summer with Aldeweireld - widely publicised option to buy deal. What happened? Atletico got him back without any issue - albeit to sell him to Spurs... At any rate, I think that shows how much water these clauses hold - none for the buying team.
These clauses are usually used by the selling team to force a team to buy a player - even when they don't perform. It'll be there for the situation that he goes there, plays 20 games and looks bang average. then we make our money back.
Trust me, if he goes and looks great, Liverpool will NOT be selling him.
You're right but the issue I have is that I personally think Ilori is close to the first team. But yet we want to persist with Skrtel and Toure as RCB.
But let's not confuse this with us wanting to give him experience at Villa. Rodgers doesn't want him and isn't prepared to give him a chance - further evidence is by putting in the option to buy clause.
The local journos have all come out with it as well - Rodgers is not convinced with Ilori.
But let's not confuse this with us wanting to give him experience at Villa. Rodgers doesn't want him and isn't prepared to give him a chance - further evidence is by putting in the option to buy clause.
The local journos have all come out with it as well - Rodgers is not convinced with Ilori.
It just makes no sense the way some people are looking at this clause. Ilori is LIVERPOOL's asset. Why would Liverpool give away the rights to its own asset for such a small fee if that asset might be worth much more. Whatever your criticisms of LFC, you couldn't say that about them - look at the fees they have managed to get for other players the last window!
I certainly think he has the potential to be first team quality - but we don't know - he's never played in the prem. Not one second. Therefore, why take the risk when Aston Villa are willing to?
I certainly think he has the potential to be first team quality - but we don't know - he's never played in the prem. Not one second. Therefore, why take the risk when Aston Villa are willing to?
Why take the risk? Because our two starting CB's have plenty of PL experience but are awful.
I posted some stats about our defence under Rodgers and it's horrific. So putting Ilori in would hardly be any worse IMO.
The Ilori deal seems mad but we've never seen him play in the prem so who knows how he will turn out but have to agree with others that keeping him made much more sense.
All I can be certain of is that we'll have highs and lows like every other season, it's why we love the game. The biggest worry for me is that I'm starting to feel the players themselves are losing faith in Rodgers and are playing very nervy. I had hoped to see a change with the introduction of McAllister - having a word in BR's ear about what the fans expect but honestly, it's more of the same ........ Whatever plan he came with isn't working but he's refusing to adapt.
All I can be certain of is that we'll have highs and lows like every other season, it's why we love the game. The biggest worry for me is that I'm starting to feel the players themselves are losing faith in Rodgers and are playing very nervy. I had hoped to see a change with the introduction of McAllister - having a word in BR's ear about what the fans expect but honestly, it's more of the same ........ Whatever plan he came with isn't working but he's refusing to adapt.
I certainly think you will have issues throwing in a totally untested 22 year old. Even if (massive IF in this league) he does come in and at least look good you then have at least one (maybe more) other central defenders who are going to be pissed off - not good for morale when we need it. For me, Ilori is too slight atm, he needs to get stronger for the Prem - I've heard Aston Villa have a gym - he can do weights with big Micah
As bad as the defence looked against West Ham, the issue in that game was the set-up, particularly in midfield. Alarm bells should have been ringing that Rodgers went into that game with the same personnel and formation as he did against Arsenal. LFC need to show that game was a blip.
I think Ilori will do well at Villa but will start out getting bullied a bit and get to grips with that by the end of the loan.
Ilori is not currently the answer to our defensive issues - our first three games showed definitively that playing the correct system is.
Of course, I may be wrong. Guess we'll have to just wait and see.
Ilori is not currently the answer to our defensive issues - our first three games showed definitively that playing the correct system is.
Of course, I may be wrong. Guess we'll have to just wait and see.
I'd disagree with that, yes we got three clean sheets in those games but our defence was still ****ing dreadful. In two of those game our defence actually conceded and we got massively lucky the ref/linesmen were ****e. It wasn't the system that saved us in those games it was luck. Those two goals stand and you're looking at two very different games were the defence is questioned, again.
Stoke was a nothing game, with one moment .
And here in lies the current problem. Play our FB's defensively and we look solid in defence but isolate our big buy forward by playing narrow and ending up hoofing it up to him with no support.
Try and create width by pushing our FB's up and we expose our mediocre first choice always picked CB's.
And I think it's both of them, one that runs away and looks brave with last ditch tackles out wide the other who just seems to be afraid of making any decision. I wouldn't have either of them in my first eleven and I think it'll be a weakened paring if you swap just one out.
Maybe our other forwards will learn to read and support Benteke better, especially when sturridge and firmino get fit.
Maybe our Midfield makes more runs when they gel and Can gets fit.
Maybe out of desperation and his future looking grim BR will risk the Gomez, Sakho combination.
If not the next manager will.
Try and create width by pushing our FB's up and we expose our mediocre first choice always picked CB's.
And I think it's both of them, one that runs away and looks brave with last ditch tackles out wide the other who just seems to be afraid of making any decision. I wouldn't have either of them in my first eleven and I think it'll be a weakened paring if you swap just one out.
Maybe our other forwards will learn to read and support Benteke better, especially when sturridge and firmino get fit.
Maybe our Midfield makes more runs when they gel and Can gets fit.
Maybe out of desperation and his future looking grim BR will risk the Gomez, Sakho combination.
If not the next manager will.
Our defence has been poor all season.
We kept 3 clean sheets which contained an easy chance which Johnson should have buried, 2 disallowed goals against Arsenal and Bournemouth and countless times Arsenal got in behind our defence despite playing a deep line.
The West Ham game was the first time Gomez and Clyne really pushed on an attacked and look how Skrtel and Lovren both struggled when they had players running at them and attacking them. They need to be babysat and at this level, we need all 11 men doing their own jobs - not worrying about the man next to them.
Ilori may not have experience in PL but this kid has defended well against Messi, Ronaldo, Cavani, Ibrahimovic. He was very good at the u21 championship this summer.
We kept 3 clean sheets which contained an easy chance which Johnson should have buried, 2 disallowed goals against Arsenal and Bournemouth and countless times Arsenal got in behind our defence despite playing a deep line.
The West Ham game was the first time Gomez and Clyne really pushed on an attacked and look how Skrtel and Lovren both struggled when they had players running at them and attacking them. They need to be babysat and at this level, we need all 11 men doing their own jobs - not worrying about the man next to them.
Ilori may not have experience in PL but this kid has defended well against Messi, Ronaldo, Cavani, Ibrahimovic. He was very good at the u21 championship this summer.
As DF says, Rodgers cannot find a balance. He either attacks gung ho, or we sit back and defend.
And even when we sit back and defend, we're still not that solid. Most will look at the Arsenal game - Skrtel and Lucas thrive on sitting deep because they hate having to defend space behind them. But even then, the number of times Arsenal still managed to get into good positions is cause for concern .
And I posted figures of Rodgers's defensive record in the PL - this man is not improving defensively.
And even when we sit back and defend, we're still not that solid. Most will look at the Arsenal game - Skrtel and Lucas thrive on sitting deep because they hate having to defend space behind them. But even then, the number of times Arsenal still managed to get into good positions is cause for concern .
And I posted figures of Rodgers's defensive record in the PL - this man is not improving defensively.
Just for Jimmy.
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All season? 4 games? Second half v the gooners I thought we defended really well and got the point we deserved.
West Ham game was a ****ing disaster, we all know that
On Ilori. Surely his injury record is an important factor?
I can't say I pore over the details of stuff like this but hasn't he only ever managed 15 or 16 games in a season?
If the medical and coaching staff consider him a high risk then I can see why we wouldn't want to be establishing him as a first-choice.
Of course I don't know the real, full story behind these decisions, but neither does anyone else on here.
I can't say I pore over the details of stuff like this but hasn't he only ever managed 15 or 16 games in a season?
If the medical and coaching staff consider him a high risk then I can see why we wouldn't want to be establishing him as a first-choice.
Of course I don't know the real, full story behind these decisions, but neither does anyone else on here.
Yes - all 4 games. There have been patches of good defending.
We sat far too deep because the backline is dragged by certain individuals needlessly. Even then, Arsenal still go in behind our defence several times. Not to mention that Ramsey scored a goal, Giroud should have scored, and Sanchez missed a good header. Didn't Lucas give away a penalty as well?
As I mentioned, we kept clean sheets but warning signs where there.