Reina hoofs it a lot more than he used to too but that is probably down to us passing it so much and putting ourselves under pressure
Yes mate, it's called the present, as opposed to the past. We've played some really good football this season, we play it long on occasion but when you've got a player like Fellaini who can trap a ball on his chest as well as anyone I've ever seen, then you'd be a fool not to utilise that ability.
When did I say I didnt put words In peoples mouths?? And yes 3 trips to wembley would have been great for us of course It would have?? I dont believe you had a poor season by your standards though far from It?? What standards do you go by??? Surely If you had such a poor season last yr this one Is going to be poor aswell or what about next yr? Will you be back up to YOUR standard then what Is that precisely win the prem and one of the cups is it? Your going to be waiting a long time for LFC to be back up to YOUR standard lol... Get real ffs
So you finally got a reality check about the money You forgot to mention due to our CC win we qualified for the EL. BTW the extra few grand EFC got for finishing a couple of places higher than us kept Kenright and his luvvies in champers and caviar during the summer.
Tobes, I'll concede your point about 2010 league position. I was wrong (don't know what table I was looking at!) bet withdrawn lol. Let me go over some of the points made by both without the semantic nonsense. You accused us of being "deluded". You left it hanging at that first time around. Second time you expanded to suggest "deluded" was to believe we could ever be in the position to win the league again? "blind belief" that we will ever do so was what made us deluded. Now since these were your counter points to posts suggesting that you as Blues accept mediocrity or "reality" while we will not and that we believe we have the capability both in size of club & the finance we attract to be competitive again; I stand by my opinion that you are using the wrong word to describe us. We base our opinions on neither blind faith (because as you'll see in the points below the means are there) nor on deluded expectation just because we are Liverpool (& an acute awareness that others have more of said means at their disposal.) as I stated read through the copious threads to show a wide range of opinion on how successful we will be & how long it will take. So our overriding argument on this thread is that we are in a better position to climb back up the table & stay up there as opposed to Everton who have peaked at 6th. That we insist that we do so as fans for the reasons below. You switch focus (180 degrees in fact) with your opinion that BR is in some way comparable to Roy and unlike under similar league standings with Roy we aren't calling for BR's head. That equals somehow a similar acceptance of mediocrity from us. I suggested that the two situations were not remotely comparable and gave 3 credible reasons for why this was the case. You picked up on the least of these reasons & ran with it. I (apart from making a twat of myself bet wise) suggested the other two factors were more important and my underlying suggestion was you knew this so attempted to cloud the issue by putting undue emphasis on a minor. part of my argument. So do you dispute all the ingredients below are there? 1) we still seem to be attracting very large sponsorship deals. This does not suggest a 'has been club' now irrelevant to the PL. 2) said funds allow us to buy players (even within a strict spend what you earn transfer budget) a wider range of good players comparable with everyone we need to be competing with other than the top 3(& one of those may be asset rich on the books but not sure they have the means for a complete rebuild) This money will obviously increase if we manage top 4. 3) the fact that during our "lean years" the only trophy that has alluded us is the league, and during one of our worse seasons we appeared in 2 cup finals, won one & achieved Europe and still sacked our manager (and some didn't agree) it hardly suggests we are accepting mediocrity. 4) we are (if you believe it) about to redevelop our stadium to compete with said big boys in gate receipts. 5) our money will be ours. We will not be at the mercy of UEFA enforcing fair play rules, or a change in regimes in countries that would wipe out the assets of the sugar daddies: world events & specific regional history suggest this could happen at any time. So long winded maybe, deluded AND accepting mediocrity? Facts don't suggest it. Oh and how can we be deluded that we are still/could one day be contenders one minute and accepting mediocrity the next? Your arguments are not linear. Just because something is very difficult to achieve is no reason to stop expecting your club to strive for it. That ends up with the average league position you've had during the PL.
Will we be back up to our standard this year? No. Will we next year? Who can say? As for what our standard is it's winning trophies and finishing top four. Really as a club we should be aiming for the league title every year but not being deluded I don't think that's realistic at all at the moment. Are we good enough for top four at the moment? No we're below our standard but with the youngest average age in the Prem and a very young inexperienced manager I know that's hardly surprising. Now at least there's no mistaking Evertons "standard" and what makes a great season. Finish above Liverpool and you're well happy
I was referring to this season with Everton having played the third most long balls and 40+ more than Stoke Just for the record, I agree. If you have someone like Felliani, Crounch, Carroll, etc then why not use them? Why make twenty passes if you can do it in two or three...?
Frank - good post that mate & I agree with a lot of what you've written there tbh. I suppose I had 2 points, some reds (note some) appear to have a 'belief' that the return to the peak is inevitable & that was what I was suggesting was delusional, as it's far from a given that it will happen, however much 'belief' goes behind it. My other point was about the difference between the time you're allowing Rodgers to 'build', compared to the lack of time you gave Roy. I know that many reds were unimpressed with Roys tactics, but he's no mug & has got it right in a number of managerial roles, but wasn't allowed the time to develop his own 'system' at LFC. Compare that to Rodgers (who imo is full of ****e) & his 180 page dossier in which he apparently re-invents football, with the staggering revelation that passing & movement is a good idea. Your attitude to him from the off was different in terms of the managers most precious commodity - time. You seemed prepared to give him time to develop his side before a ball was kicked & have stuck with him, despite some poor results & gash defending. Personally I think he's conning you with a load of soundbites & twaddle & will be found out in the fullness of time, but I'm surprised that you lot are taking it all at face value, considering how you treated Roy, that was my point.
Compare Rodgers soundbites with these from Hodgson. His main priority after joining us. “I know Sir Alex is not really a Liverpool man,” said *Hodgson, “so I’m a bit *concerned about my excellent relationship with him. “I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret. “I hope that’s how he is going to see it – but he is one of the people I intend to ring to find out." On getting beat by Everton Hodgson insisted: 'That was as good as we have played all season, and I have no qualms with the performance whatsoever. I only hope fair-minded people will see it the same way. 'It's just unfortunate that such a good game of football, a real credit to the Premier League, will revolve round the fact that Liverpool did not win. 'It was a sterling effort by the players, especially after Everton's second goal went in. Pressure builds up, of course, but we will cope with that.' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Ive-seen-Liverpool-season.html#ixzz2Asqz6Zla Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
So many people are going to be gutted when Rodgers suceeds - and he will - in getting us back in the top 4. Especially blues and Spurs fans.
But Hodgson was the wrong fit and he played anti-football. he had no idea what LFC was about, how to conduct himself, what is and isn't acceptable and what our standards and expectations are. he was the exact opposite to Rodger's who has got everything right so far. The displays are getting better nut no-one expected it to be achieved this quick anyway. Everyone is willing to forget about this season as we bring in new players and get used to the new philosophy. Hodgsons approach was never ever going to work for us no matter how long we give. It was obvious to all LFC fans. Thats the difference and thats why he had to go. I reckon we'll be around the top 6 after Xmas anyway and then we'll significantly strengthen in Jan and take it from there.
I think he comes over David Brent at times too and you will find some on here far from convinced & even one openly hostile to him. To be fair to him, I think he is a young manager with mixed success at his previous levels so that is comparable to Roy. He came with a good sell to employers; can't fault him for that. Does he believe he's reinvented football: probably lol. I listened to his fan site interviews & what I got was a genuine enthusiasm for the game and it being played well hidden among some of the bollox. Will he alter his views slightly as he gets more experience? probably. I and many others will give him time because of that enthusiasm. Roy just didn't look like he enjoyed the game anymore when he was at us, even very early on. Roy sounded like opposition fans when he said LFC fans had to be realistic but there was no plan for the future just that's it settle! Rodgers has been equally frank about we are now but at least gives us the impression he has plan to improve on that. I think there are 2 reasons he'll get more time from fans at least. One the style of football is what we WANT played regardless of manager, so we will wait & see if he is the man that can not only bring in the players to play it but at a level good enough for the main aim; a competitive league team. He also did himself no harm (timing was fortunate for him but Roy arguably still wouldn't have done it) and continued & extended KD's use of young bright players. (Again it could be argued it was forced on him) The second reason comes close to your claim: I think a lot of us while maintaining that we were right about Roy being a wrong fit for our club (the same way fat sam would be)we still felt deeply uneasy about abandoning a manager so soon. Not only because it wasn't our usual way but because it held a mirror up to the growing panic among us that our club was still in deep trouble football wise just when the club itself had been saved. We wanted rid of all that came with that unsuccessful regime & here he was all negative & dreary and not doing so well; reminding us of before. It also took us down a road that led to the club hierarchy being able to sack a Club hero 18 months later because he didn't fit the regime image they wanted & worse they used our own excuse for Roy back on us. I think a lot of us think a third manager gone so quickly will lead to the revolving door & us being cemented in mid table. But I personally like a young Management team with young players. There will be some pitfalls along the way and as long as we are lucky/skilfull in the transfer market from now on we have the base for a very good side. Of course how good other clubs stay or become is out of our hands. And if he eventually after time( 3-4 years in my book), hasn't improved us then we have to ask why? Is it because he wasn't good or because the club strategy was flawed in its belief you can be competitive with limited funds vs unlimited funds. If its the former we get a new manager. If its the latter and all our millions just can't compete to hundreds of millions in an uncontrolled finance game? Then yes we might have to settle. Not there yet though!
Page Moss - so you're basically saying that Roy was hated because he didn't share the bile filled hatred of Ferguson & was gracious in defeat post the derby? Compared to Rodgers who's basically told you everything you want to hear, but has delivered even less than Roy so far.............sort of proves my point.
Frank - another really good post there mate, I can totally understand where you're coming from there, it makes complete sense that.
Lets get it right, kissing Ferguson's arse before his first training session was an insult to us and telling us how great we played when we'd just been twatted by our neighbours was laughable. As for Rodgers telling me what i want to hear, i don't give a toss what he says as long as it's not crass and defeatist bullshit as above and if he doesn't deliver he'll go the same way as Hodgson so it wont matter what he says.
haha, yeah I suppose the timing of the Ferguson comment wasn't exactly setting off on the right foot. Moyes gets dogs abuse in certain quarters for his derby comments at times btw, some Blues just don't think he 'get's the derby, which for a Glaswegian is odd. Second point - fair enough mate, you can't get clearer than that. He might prove me wrong & have you playing like Barca in 12 months, but I just can't see it, I think he's going to struggle to turn performances into results. Once he comes under pressure he gives me the impression he's going to grasp for any excuse going & if he does he'll be dead in the water as a Liverpool manager imo.
Well Gerrard was obviously trolling when he said this and it seems to have done the job and annoy lots of Everton fans. I don't think Everton play like Stoke, I think they play like Wimbeldon from the 80s, Fellani is John Fashanu with his dirty elbows.
Add the Northampton defeat too. He threw a mix of youngsters and poor reserve together and they lost, his comments afterwards basically blamed the players
