European Elections

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I think Hoppers makes an important point. There wouldn't be such a need for immigrants if such a large amounts of brits weren't such workshy sods. Unfortunately we are such a nice contry that we will never do anything to properly tackle this issue.

For the wider picture, I work at a company which arranges customs clearance and onward deliveries for containers which arrive via the UKs main seaports. We are based in a hauliers yard in Felixstowe. I would say probably 30 - 40% of lorry drivers employed here are now polish/ eastern European. A lot of the English drivers are the ones now approaching retirement age. Its not a profession that appeals to the younger Englishman. There are numerous other of the more mundane jobs that we seem to think are above us.

Where I don't like immigration is when it is done purely as we have a 'nice' standard given to us by the state (schools, health, benefits etc) and they don't do anything to contribute. For me there should be a fairness to all decisions taken and not just general swiping statements.
 
Hoppersblue10 said:
What a load of rubbish,I am 100% certain that Poles etc that have been in this country for 5 years or more still see themselves as Poles etc and not British.

They would simply apply for British citizenship etc so they can reap the benefits
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Wouldnt like to make assumptions. Their personal decision on how they see their nationality would depend on many factors.
From my (obviously less dramatic) experience, my move from England to Wales when I was 6 made me identify myself as British, Although when people call me welsh, usually in jest, I will clarify that I am English I still support the English national teams in games over the Welsh etc. On the other hand my younger brother, who was 3 when we moved fully identifies himself as Welsh.

What are the benefits your stating there are from identifying as British for Poles? As EU citizens they are free to work here however they identify themselves, I know benefits are a little less clear cut but after 5 years they would qualify. And has ass been repeatedly stated the vast majority of foreign nationals that come here do so to work, not claim benefits.
 
Mike_Holmes1990 said:
Wouldnt like to make assumptions. Their personal decision on how they see their nationality would depend on many factors.
From my (obviously less dramatic) experience, my move from England to Wales when I was 6 made me identify myself as British, Although when people call me welsh, usually in jest, I will clarify that I am English I still support the English national teams in games over the Welsh etc. On the other hand my younger brother, who was 3 when we moved fully identifies himself as Welsh.

What are the benefits your stating there are from identifying as British for Poles? As EU citizens they are free to work here however they identify themselves, I know benefits are a little less clear cut but after 5 years they would qualify. And has ass been repeatedly stated the vast majority of foreign nationals that come here do so to work, not claim benefits.
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I think it would have more to do with their work being here, their home being here and their children going to school here than thinking about claiming benefits. Although there are also people (men) who work here and send the money back home to their families. If they make that kind of sacrifice to look after their wives and children I say good luck to em.
 
Mike_Holmes1990 said:
Wouldnt like to make assumptions. Their personal decision on how they see their nationality would depend on many factors.
From my (obviously less dramatic) experience, my move from England to Wales when I was 6 made me identify myself as British, Although when people call me welsh, usually in jest, I will clarify that I am English I still support the English national teams in games over the Welsh etc. On the other hand my younger brother, who was 3 when we moved fully identifies himself as Welsh.

What are the benefits your stating there are from identifying as British for Poles? As EU citizens they are free to work here however they identify themselves, I know benefits are a little less clear cut but after 5 years they would qualify. And has ass been repeatedly stated the vast majority of foreign nationals that come here do so to work, not claim benefits.
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For me they do clearly see themselves as Poles, the England v Poland WC qualifier a few months ago would bare that out, Wembley was approaching 1/4 full of mainly Polish supporters who live over here, I did not witness any of them showing much affinity to England that night, in fact it was pretty hostile in soma areas!
 
What passes me off is we a're not entitled to any child credit, family allowance etc coz we live in Spain now. That is fine and I fully accept we chose to leave but I do get pits off at the fact that I paid into the system for about 25 years and get nowt yet others have paid f all and get all the benefits going, foreign and Brita alike. Hey ho, rant over!! Now sitting outside with a beer, absolutely ****ed after hour and half of 5 a side on concrete in the heat, against a load of. 20ish fit young Spaniards but hey, the team with the British in won!!
 
johnnywarksmoustache said:
These results show that Labour hasn't got what it takes to govern with that prat Miliband! If labour were going to make any serious headway they should be picking up well of ver 350 seats and taking councils like Swindon, Tamworth and Trafford from the Tories! In reality their predicted share of the national vote managed a measly 31% just 2% more than the Tories managed! At this stage of the electoral cycle they should be polling a 10 - 15% lead! There is not much appetite for labours Tax and spend policies. And Milliband is a just weirdo! He looks weird, he talks weird and he acts weird! Bacon sarnie anyone?
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Wonderful use of threes!!! You'll make a politican yet, Warky!!!
 
New piggin phone, getting all my words wrong!! Sorry boys, I will get to grips with it eventually
 
Spanish said:
What passes me off is we a're not entitled to any child credit, family allowance etc coz we live in Spain now. That is fine and I fully accept we chose to leave but I do get pits off at the fact that I paid into the system for about 25 years and get nowt yet others have paid f all and get all the benefits going, foreign and Brita alike. Hey ho, rant over!! Now sitting outside with a beer, absolutely ****ed after hour and half of 5 a side on concrete in the heat, against a load of. 20ish fit young Spaniards but hey, the team with the British in won!!
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Shouldn't the Spanish government be sorting you out with these benefits?
 
Warky the Spanish look after their own and that's about it, which is how it should be!!
 
Hamps Yorkie Lancs said:
If you want to stop European people moving freely then you say goodbye to all the benefits of the EU, which most importantly for me include trade, human and workers rights and holding our own government and courts to account.
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I think this is what it comes down to for myself. UKIP are right in that coming out of Europe means we have greater control of our borders (although in practice I've heard that's not the case) but it's one of those things when you have to weigh up the benefits of staying in or leaving and IMO the benefits of staying in far out weigh those of coming out.

I'm not sure where I stand on the free movement of people throughout europe but either way we need to have better border controls in terms of knowing who is coming in and out and have far greater planning in place for integration and provision but IMO having UKIP in charge will make this far worse and cause far greater divides
 
Hoppersblue10 said:
Mike_Holmes1990 said:
Wouldnt like to make assumptions. Their personal decision on how they see their nationality would depend on many factors.
From my (obviously less dramatic) experience, my move from England to Wales when I was 6 made me identify myself as British, Although when people call me welsh, usually in jest, I will clarify that I am English I still support the English national teams in games over the Welsh etc. On the other hand my younger brother, who was 3 when we moved fully identifies himself as Welsh.

What are the benefits your stating there are from identifying as British for Poles? As EU citizens they are free to work here however they identify themselves, I know benefits are a little less clear cut but after 5 years they would qualify. And has ass been repeatedly stated the vast majority of foreign nationals that come here do so to work, not claim benefits.
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For me they do clearly see themselves as Poles, the England v Poland WC qualifier a few months ago would bare that out, Wembley was approaching 1/4 full of mainly Polish supporters who live over here, I did not witness any of them showing much affinity to England that night, in fact it was pretty hostile in soma areas!
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I think you're missing the point. My nana moved to Ipswich from Greece after the Second World War. She lived in Britain for 60 years before she died and I'm sure she'd have identified herself as Greek until the end but she was a British subject for most of her life. What we're talking about is not identity, which is a lot more complex for most of us, but the right to live and work in Britain.

Things just aren't as neat and tidy and perfect as little Englanders would like.
 
Spanish said:
Warky the Spanish look after their own and that's about it, which is how it should be!!
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Which proves the point!

How is it that our government pays out all these benefits to immigrants even though their families live back home!
<grr> we are a bloody soft touch and the immigrants know it! My wife works in a detention centre and she tells me what goes on! UKIP have got it spot on and it's about time something is done to tighten up on all immigration.
 
itfcptc said:
I think this is what it comes down to for myself. UKIP are right in that coming out of Europe means we have greater control of our borders (although in practice I've heard that's not the case) but it's one of those things when you have to weigh up the benefits of staying in or leaving and IMO the benefits of staying in far out weigh those of coming out.

I'm not sure where I stand on the free movement of people throughout europe but either way we need to have better border controls in terms of knowing who is coming in and out and have far greater planning in place for integration and provision but IMO having UKIP in charge will make this far worse and cause far greater divides
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We would save the £15 BILLION we give to Brussels every year and spend that money on the NHS, Housing, Education and other key infrastructure projects! Our elected parliament in Westminster will be able to make our own laws and our courts will be free to interpret them. I know it's an alien concept for the Europhiles but we are better as a sovereign nation free from interference from Brussels. We should trade freely and cooperate with Europe but not be governed by them.
 
johnnywarksmoustache said:
Which proves the point!

How is it that our government pays out all these benefits to immigrants even though their families live back home!
<grr> we are a bloody soft touch and the immigrants know it! My wife works in a detention centre and she tells me what goes on! UKIP have got it spot on and it's about time something is done to tighten up on all immigration.
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I agree in terms of we shouldn't be seen as a soft touch but our own do so aswell. I geuss again it's thinking do the benefits outweigh the negatives. Where I work at a council, I know it's actually never been easy for immigrants to get particularly housing benefits, the odd one wanting to take advantage slips through the net but they are few and far between. I think alot of that is scaremongering from the right wing press.

I don't think that is the main issue with immigration, for me it's about actually knowing who is in the country and then intergration and provision of services.
 
johnnywarksmoustache said:
We would save the £15 BILLION we give to Brussels every year and spend that money on the NHS, Housing, Education and other key infrastructure projects! Our elected parliament in Westminster will be able to make our own laws and our courts will be free to interpret them. I know it's an alien concept for the Europhiles but we are better as a sovereign nation free from interference from Brussels. We should trade freely and cooperate with Europe but not be governed by them.
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There are many things we could save money on, foreign aid etc but it's a very insular approach, the more cooperation we have with other countries the better, we have a far greater chance to improve the prospects of countries around us which can only benefit ourselves interms of trade and future allegiencies within europe but also accross the rest of the world. There's alot wrong with the EU and I we'd survive if we left it but I beleive we are far stronger in it and would do well to try and direct the way in which it develops. The Euro was an ideological disaster though!!
 
<laugh> Warky, you really think investment and trade levels would remain the same if we left the EU? Come on old boy. Even Farage's answer to that one is that there are lots of other countries to trade with, not that it would remain as it is now. You fail to mention that a good percentage of that money comes back to Britain by the way.
 
"Little Englanders"

If you could just post something one time without trying to be-little anyone who doesn't agree with you, then a few more on here might take you more seriously. <ok>
 
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