I was intrigued to see what Allerdyce would have done; I think he could have had some success and as you say it would have been interesting if he could have expanded his game plan.
But I'm not worrying too much that we'll never find out.
Match Day Thread Euro 2021 Thread
- Thread starter RogerisontheHunt
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But I'm not worrying too much that we'll never find out.
Yeah, if we stopped talking rubbish we'd have nothing to say.It's a bit late to be moaning about people talking about unimportant things on here.
To go to your point though, it's true, but Southgate has his system and he wasn't going to change it just for the final (nor should he have). I think we've discussed his philosophy to death during the rest of the tournament. Assuming he doesn't quit, he's not going to be fired and there are no obvious candidates to replace him, so the question is will he adjust the System before the World cup? He'll be well aware that playing to our strengths also means exposing our weakness.
And if we're being honest, the football is any case ultimately irrelevant and the far more deserving topic of conversation are the various fan incidents that confirm the depresssing state of our society as a whole. But tbh I don't have the heart or the energy to concentrate on that for now and it's easier to focus on whether Sterling should have played left or right.
I'm just pointing out that the overall strategy is ultimately more important than the minutiae. I do think that your point yesterday about it being tournament football is a valid one though. I'd not really thought about it because I'm rather unforgiving about things that bore me, but you can probably do ok winning a tournament with negative stuff. You're not really going to lose too many supporters over a short period (especially not the rabid Engurland types) whereas people will inevitably lose interest if the same old slop is served up weekly in the league.
The critique was about the squad in general and how it moves forward to the World Cup and beyond, rather than just the one tournament (Which I thought was clear at the start)
But if we ask ourselves why the defence was the most succesful part of England's tournament, could it be because that England's tactics were based around protecting and not stretching said defence at the cost of the attacking players. They played with two holding midfielders to sit in front of the defence so at times (as in the final) England were basically playing with a back 7.
Now that could be cause Southgate is over cautious defensive minded coach or it could be because everyone knew Englands defenders weren't as good as the attacking options.... OR..... A combination of both.
What could help England overcome the defensive tactics is trust in their defenders and the comes with improving the defence. (along with a change in manager or a change in mind for the manager)
Do England need great players in ever position, no but it can't hurt.
Do England need to accept the current players (like Pickford) shouldn't face competition over the next 18 months, hell no.
Things to think about in the next 18 months +
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OR it could just be that the defenders are good enough. The flaws in the manager's approach or his lack of faith in players if he has them are really an indication of him, not the players themselves necessarily. And I can say that about him picking two defensive midfielders as much as I can about him NOT picking Foden or Sancho or Bellingham or Grealish. That's really his problem. At the end of the day Stones and Maguire, Walker and Shaw did their defensive duties well enough and have done not just this tournament but over the past 3 years when they've played for England. In the tournament itself, even when the opposition played through our midfield and were attacking our defence, they never looked like rabbits in headlights or out of their depth, at no point did I think they weren't good enough, and that for me is a big plus.
Of course every position should have competition, not just the goalkeeper but the defence, midfield and attack. I'd personally focus more on who can emerge as the next centre forward to challenge/take over from Kane. Ultimately though it is the mindset and ethos of the manager that dictates everything. You could have 26 worldies in that England sqaud but if he sets them up with 2 holding midfielders playing cautious turgid football then there's nowt the players can do about that.
In regards to competition for Kane i would like to see Watkins given a run out .My theory is if we are to make full use of the attacking midfield options we have a duracell bunny CF may well help to pull defenders out of position / cause overloads .
If not can someone please tell Kane if he drops deep and plays the ball out wide he must then actually put some effort into getting back into the box as the number of times we had the ball in the opponents last 3rd but had no one in the box was painful .
If not can someone please tell Kane if he drops deep and plays the ball out wide he must then actually put some effort into getting back into the box as the number of times we had the ball in the opponents last 3rd but had no one in the box was painful .
My england team.
Henderson (though unsure he is any better)
Trent stones maguire chilwell
Foden rice mount
Sancho kane sterling.
I would apply guardiola tactics here.
With the ball.
.............Henderson
(Big gap here henderson must patrol)
........Stones maguire (offside line)
.....Trent... rice.... chilwell (full backs tuck in)
.......Foden mount (creative and join box)
Sancho.......................sterling (wide = wide)
...................kane
I want foden and mount to be free to create. I want absolutely zero chance of anyone thinking width is a full backs job. Sancho and sterling and wingers. Be winners then. If sterling ain't happy he is out and grealish is in. **** him.
Henderson (though unsure he is any better)
Trent stones maguire chilwell
Foden rice mount
Sancho kane sterling.
I would apply guardiola tactics here.
With the ball.
.............Henderson
(Big gap here henderson must patrol)
........Stones maguire (offside line)
.....Trent... rice.... chilwell (full backs tuck in)
.......Foden mount (creative and join box)
Sancho.......................sterling (wide = wide)
...................kane
I want foden and mount to be free to create. I want absolutely zero chance of anyone thinking width is a full backs job. Sancho and sterling and wingers. Be winners then. If sterling ain't happy he is out and grealish is in. **** him.
Henderson is no good mate. I wouldn't want him as United's number 1 so no way he's good enough for England either. He's one of those that will do very well at a club just below the top 6, probably fighting for a European spot rather than being in one.
Fck Sterling tbph. I'd still play a fit and firing Rashford over him all day long.
And if that's not the consensus opinion because he's a manc, then Harvey Barnes. He'll be twice the player of Sterling for England and I'm confident of that.
Tbh I was unimpressed last season when he got in. Henderson looked good with a deep.lying defensive team like sheff utd but hes all there really is.
No hope Pope is an alright shot stopper but cant pass, cant catches and certainly cant sweep.
Yeh at the start of the season I was worried he was going to leave if he didn't get the No. 1 spot. Then he got his chances and failed to impress every time. Any bargaining chip he had about offering ultimatums soon disappeared.
I would rather we try and get De Gea back to his best than have Henderson as No. 1. Sad to say it as he's obv one of our youth players coming through but reality is he's simply not made the cut.
Btw. If we didnt have both foden and mount and wanted to play more like liverpool then I'd go for rashford at lw to cut in and be looking for real pace at rw, sancho might do it, not sure.
With full backs like trent and chilwell its.more than possible to push them right up but the balance has to come then in midfield.
If we want to play like Chelsea then 343 is easily created but the difference to chelsea and southgate is massive. chelsea is a high press, follow the man, win the duel type style.
You need to be a brave defender at Chelsea to push up and it's not 5 at the back rather a cb following a forward up the park.
Incidentally all 3 systems are different flyer have one important element in common. Defenders need to defend one on one and not rely on layers of cover to hide them away.
Chilwell aint that good going forward you would better off with Shaw in that formation .
I'd be surprised if England is entertained for hosting a football tournament again.
A lot of stuff seems to be being ignored or wept under the rug in the aftermath but there seems to be a consensus on how nasty it was around the game and the trouble and invaders in seats refusing to let people take their place.
A lot of stuff seems to be being ignored or wept under the rug in the aftermath but there seems to be a consensus on how nasty it was around the game and the trouble and invaders in seats refusing to let people take their place.