EU Referendum - how will you vote?

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Brussels have just passed a new law allowing him to start up his 85th Charlton forum.

Its called the Failed Forum Keep Trying Directive.

 

I'm voting leave.... also an easy decision

 

A difficult decision for me, but in the end Remain. Countries have to work together to combat global warming. Our grandchildren will wonder why we didn't. The present immigration levels will be dwarfed when the mass migrations north begin.

 

Why can we not combat global warming out of the eu? Regardless of what Europe does, India and China are the main offenders.

 

But the EU actually makes global warming WORSE - look at all of that hot air coming out of Brussels.

 

How's it looking amongst your friends and family? The poll on here is heavily in favour of brexit, whilst my Facebook is overwhelmingly in the remain camp. The office is completely split but the arguments from both sides are getting silly. What worries me is people using their voice to sway other individuals with complete bs. AH said a few weeks back about nobody really knowing how it will impact but to come to your own decision. Best advice I've passed on

 

This referendum is probably the most irresponsible and clumsy thing our government has done making it one of the most important decisions we have to make and a position we should never have been in in the first place. I am voting out, not because I hate Europe, not because I think we will be better off out, not because I think it will magically solve our immigration issues, not because I think it will fix our public services but because I feel the stupidity of having it in the first place has left us with no alternative. We were fine in the EU, the reason we were fine is because we are the 2nd largest economy in the club and the 5th in the world, we had something to bargain with, the EU never wanted to lose us and feared us holding a referendum so we got the best deals we could and were able to say NO to all things we opposed such as the EURO. Not anymore, now we have had this referendum we have lost our bargaining tool, if we vote remain they will know the country has spoken, the worse happened and they still have us, no more good deals we will just be another slave to Europe, there is now a huge risk of being controlled by a dictatorship that is growing in strength and numbers every year who are not elected that are not part of a democracy, making our democratic parliament redundant in the end. This campaign has been disgusting from start to finish, the far right have hijacked BREXIT making good decent people think if they vote out they're racist and the party leaders from the REMAIN camp have been scaremongering and threatening because they are scared because they messed up having it in the first place. I for one will be glad when it's all over but feel we are screwed no matter what, I'm voting out because I'd rather be screwed in a democracy that together we have a say in than out of one where we can only watch and can't control.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised, Sadie. I thought you would be staunchly remain.

 

The truth is we're f ****d anyway, or at least our grandchildren are. One of the worst offenders in Europe is Holland, which will disappear.

 

Because I'm left wing?

Yes I get that I am a leftie, I have also been on the fence most of the campaign I have listened to and watched everything before making what I feel is an informed and educated decision. I was getting put off by the far right hijacking the Brexit campaign for their own agendas and was equally peed off at the remain scare tactics and threats. My voting out has nothing to do with immigration but everything to do with democracy and freedom. Power to the people!

 

The EEC we joined in 1975 was an economic union of 6 countries.

The EU we are welded to in 2016 is a political union of 28 countries.

One size doesn't fit all. Ask the people of Greece.

In answer to Super's rhetorical question. what sort of people are voting Remain? In my experience of 30 years this June working in Westminster, two types - a rich, moneyed elite (people like Heseltine, Patten, JK Rowling, Lineker and Beckham) who benefit from mass EU migration because it gives them cheaper au pairs and plumbers. The second group of Remainers are gauche, unworldly student types who think it is right- on to have a girlfriend from Estonia who works in Costa Coffee, and think the benefits of EU membership amount to cheap texts and roaming charges when they go backpacking across Bavaria this summer.

Ultimately, the UK is a small island. At the current levels of EU immigration, we will have a population of 80 million by 2030.The EU is doing HUGE damage to the social fabric of this country. Think about that before you vote today.

 

Corbyn has been absolutely shocking in this campaign. To paraphrase the late Hugo Young on another leader, Corbyn simply doesn't have the horsepower for the job. We need a strong Labour Party for democracy in this country, but God help them in 2020 with this ineffective idiot in charge.

 

I wasn't going to have my say because I think it will ruffle things (I probably won't reply to any responses...) and because there are too many opinions floating around today; but in any case I feel the need to vent and exorcise my thoughts.

Remain.

I'm terrified of another recession and further austerity and cuts to public services.
I'm terrified of a leave vote legitimasing the rise of the right wing.
I'm terrified of a Conservative leadership election under the fixed Parliament Act which could feasibly see Boris Johnson as PM.

I believe each of those to be objective and rational concerns, and when coupled with the independent facts and my own socialist ideals ('together stronger' and as Billy says climate change is a huge huge issue) it's a very obvious response.

Given the information available I truly believe anyone who votes 'leave' to be either a blinded moron or a xenophobe. Immigration is a red herring in this - a buzz word used to stoke an innate jangoism inside the moronic tides of society; tricked into thinking that the glory days of their youth can be resurrected. Those days are gone and you need to adapt to the now, and working from within to reform and lead change is the right and only way. Three decades of Thatcherism and New Labour have destroyed this country - not immigration (which is largely controlled) and not the EU.

We are at breaking point and successive governments from both parties are the architects of our collective demise. Policy is to blame; 6 years of austerity and no investment in public services is to blame, and the years before that where industries and whole communities were killed. This is not the view of a 'liberal leftie youngster' to be dismissed; modern life is a thousand times worse since I was a child in the 90s. We live in a society now where libraries and sports centres can't afford to run and hospitals and prisons are privatley run for profit; where people can't talk to each other and selfish hate and greed default instincts.

I'm livid at the fact that we have been put through this referendum as a result of Conservative in-fighting - it's irresponsible management of a Country - and scared of the outcome either way. More than anything though I'm bemused by it all; it feels like there will be no going back from any of this and that this vile and repulsive campaigns affect on society will be permanent. There is no working class anymore - only an underclass and an affluent lower middle-class where consumerism, materialism and a laissez-faire mindset rule. The riots of 2011 should have warned us enough. There is no such thing as society and we as a nation have lost our sense of worth and understanding of what is right.

On reflection whilst writing this, I would go as far as to say that immigrants are in fact the most useful part of our society; they give us what we want and do the dirty work that we no longer have the will or aptitude to do (be it working in retail and construction to working in healthcare and education). Both yours and my generations are useless generations - without immigration the society that we crave and have become accustomed to will collapse. Whatever happens after this the right wing rhetoric will stick and leave a nasty taste that has set back integration even further. The sycophantic self-congratulatory 'I Voted' posts on social media are representative of the above.

It's so depressing that I can't eloquently word the frustration, so apologies for the rambling; I've been conditioned that way...

 

Great post, Kish. I'm dreading the triumphalism of certain well-known figures if the vote is to leave.

 

Rhetorical? Genuinely trying to get an understanding of where people are with it all. I'll remain curious until the first few results are posted.

 

I certainly won't be celebrating if Remain win. The two sides were far too polarised for my liking. Those who were leading the debate would not admit to a single point the other side made. I might have voted Leave because of the undemocratic nature of the EU, but democracy is very limited anyway in the UK. The turnout is about 65% for general elections and half that for EU and council elections. People moan ad nauseum about politicians, but it's us who choose them. If you don't like them join a political party and do something about it. Politicians are only as good as the people who put them there, and that's US!

 

Disappointing that you class anyone that votes leave a xenophobe or a moron, considering 12 of the people on this board have said they will vote leave.

As for staying in and influencing reform - you only need to see what Junker said yesterday.

 

Disagree with just about every single word of that, but at least you have a view. With respect, much of it is badly thought through dross.