Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

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How will you vote in the EU referendum ?

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Smirnoffpriest said:
Really nice tone - lovely, at least you didn't say you weren't going to be rude this time. Doesn't make you come across as any less of an asshole though.

As I said they wouldn't be able to get away with such blatant lies in a GE. What is so hard to understand about that?
The £350m lie was challenged but that didn't negate the damage it has done or the damage the Nazi-style immigration advertising did.
The head of the Leave campaign was running (and a favourite at one point until he did a runner) to become PM. Isn't it at least sensible he would have a plan in place for implementing many of his wild claims. The fact that he didn't even have a clue how to, to such an extent that he quit and dropped out of the running for leadership says a lot!
How did the Remain economic argument fall flat? The fact they talked down to people and scaremongered is IMO the reason they failed, but the truth of the economic argument, backed up by experts around the world, seems to be coming true!
I do live in Wales, as I live in the UK. Does that mean I have to share the opinion of the majority in any region, BUT wait, I also live in Cardiff which voted, in the majority to remain. There's a pickle - which majority do I follow. Actually come to think of it, the majority of countries in the world wanted us to remain...
It's also because I live in Wales and know how much we (and I in particular) have to lose that I am angriest that people got taken in by the lies.
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You may claim I'm an arsehole, that's your right and I'm not going to argue the point.
The problem is, you appear so blinkered by the hate and injustice of it all, you don't seem to want to read and understand what people are telling you.
Believe it or not, I do try to steer well clear of the petty squabbles, but as someone who voted to REMAIN, I am trying to remain impartial, when it comes to apportioning blame. You on the other hand seem to have fallen into the trap where if someone does not have the same view as you, they are some how inferior.
 
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pieguts said:
You may claim I'm an arsehole, that's your right and I'm not going to argue the point.
The problem is, you appear so blinkered by the hate and injustice of it all, you don't seem to want to read and understand what people are telling you.
Believe it or not, I do try to steer well clear of the petty squabbles, but as someone who voted to REMAIN, I am trying to remain impartial, when it comes to apportioning blame. You on the other hand seem to have fallen into the trap where if someone does not have the same view as you, they are some how inferior.
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Not at all, ive have reasoned debates with other people on here and elsewhere who disagree with me when they give a reasoned argument.

Your patronising tone did annoy thoughand tbh ive not seen an honest of sense in the argument that one side doesnt need to use facts, logic or even use any sense in its argument. And then its up to the other side to put argument into practice.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
Not at all, ive have reasoned debates with other people on here and elsewhere who disagree with me when they give a reasoned argument.

Your patronising tone did annoy thoughand tbh ive not seen an honest of sense in the argument that one side doesnt need to use facts, logic or even use any sense in its argument. And then its up to the other side to put argument into practice.
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I apologise for the tone of the mail, as said I don't really want to get involved in a load of petty mud slinging.
My issue is that the whole purpose of a referendum, was for the public to decide.
Rightly or wrongly they have made that decision (I happen to think it was a wrong decision). What does bug me though, is the claim from the remain that because people voted leave, they are bigots, racists, chavs, pikeys etc. I know plenty of decent law abiding, hard working, non-hating people who voted because they generally believe we, as s nation, are better off out of the EU.
 
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pieguts said:
I apologise for the tone of the mail, as said I don't really want to get involved in a load of petty mud slinging.
My issue is that the whole purpose of a referendum, was for the public to decide.
Rightly or wrongly they have made that decision (I happen to think it was a wrong decision). What does bug me though, is the claim from the remain that because people voted leave, they are bigots, racists, chavs, pikeys etc. I know plenty of decent law abiding, hard working, non-hating people who voted because they generally believe we, as s nation, are better off out of the EU.
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I never said that though. I was just refuting Hull and Pete's claim.

Apology accepted
 
pieguts said:
I apologise for the tone of the mail, as said I don't really want to get involved in a load of petty mud slinging.
My issue is that the whole purpose of a referendum, was for the public to decide.
Rightly or wrongly they have made that decision (I happen to think it was a wrong decision). What does bug me though, is the claim from the remain that because people voted leave, they are bigots, racists, chavs, pikeys etc. I know plenty of decent law abiding, hard working, non-hating people who voted because they generally believe we, as s nation, are better off out of the EU.
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Haven't we covered this over and over and over again. We've already established a few hundred pages ago it was a mix of both. It really is simple, if you voted leave and it wasn't through some small-minded fear of foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs and services or blamed for some make-believe crimewave, then the tag of bigot/racist doesn't apply. The fact is though, that for some it does apply, and some of those bigots are posting on here quite merrily whilst at the same time, 'liking' the very post you've just written. Go figure!
 
Treble said:
Haven't we covered this over and over and over again. We've already established a few hundred pages ago it was a mix of both. It really is simple, if you voted leave and it wasn't through some small-minded fear of foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs and services or blamed for some make-believe crimewave, then the tag of bigot/racist doesn't apply. The fact is though, that for some it does apply, and some of those bigots are posting on here quite merrily whilst at the same time, 'liking' the very post you've just written. Go figure!
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I totally agree that this has been covered on more than 1 occasion, however it does appear to be the default position of some, when the debate does not quite go the way they expect.
 
pieguts said:
I totally agree that this has been covered on more than 1 occasion, however it does appear to be the default position of some, when the debate does not quite go the way they expect.
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Fair enough mate, I haven't been on since around page 509 so I've missed a lot. Or perhaps, going by where we are, probably not much <laugh>
 
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petersaxton said:
I dont understand why the Remain people dont think there is a plan. The plan is to leave the EU, negotiate a leaving deal with the EU and make trade deals with the rest of the world. Seeing as a lot of this is down to negotiation then any detailed plan would be ridiculous. The government would still carry on with other branches of government.
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With all due respect, that's a total joke of a plan. The sort of plan a 9 year old would make, eg;

1) build a boat out of a cardboard box
2) sail to America
3) build a castle

In other words, no ****ing plan.
 
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Treble said:
Fair enough mate, I haven't been on since around page 509 so I've missed a lot. Or perhaps, going by where we are, probably not much <laugh>
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I have, for the large part, tried to keep well out of it. In my opinion there's not a lot left to debate on this thread, as it appears to be going round in circles.
I suppose, based on today's exchanges with Smirnoff, I am as bad as everyone else, so I will go back to my position as an Internet stalker.
 
pieguts said:
I have, for the large part, tried to keep well out of it. In my opinion there's not a lot left to debate on this thread, as it appears to be going round in circles.
I suppose, based on today's exchanges with Smirnoff, I am as bad as everyone else, so I will go back to my position as an Internet stalker.
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I've just got bored with it. There really is nothing new being said.

Best to end the whole thread with "Que sera sera" and leave it as that.
 
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Archers Road said:
With all due respect, that's a total joke of a plan. The sort of plan a 9 year old would make, eg;

1) build a boat out of a cardboard box
2) sail to America
3) build a castle

In other words, no ****ing plan.
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so what kind of plan can you have when you are going to be negotiating? there's so many options so you should just get on and do it after listing all what you want. do you think it's going to help anybody to just list everything down? if australia come to you and say they want a trade deal and make it like the EU deal then I would suggest that we look at that deal and see what changes we want, if they dont want to make it like the EU deal then we would come up with a list of things to suggest. would you feel more reassured if you saw several thousand pages of plans before you even know who is going to be in charge of what is going to happen?
as an accountant, when I talk to a new client I will talk to them and decide what they need and discuss what they are happy to do. I don't list every possible option beforehand because so much will not be relevant once we get talking.
 
petersaxton said:
so what kind of plan can you have when you are going to be negotiating? there's so many options so you should just get on and do it after listing all what you want. do you think it's going to help anybody to just list everything down? if australia come to you and say they want a trade deal and make it like the EU deal then I would suggest that we look at that deal and see what changes we want, if they dont want to make it like the EU deal then we would come up with a list of things to suggest. would you feel more reassured if you saw several thousand pages of plans before you even know who is going to be in charge of what is going to happen?
as an accountant, when I talk to a new client I will talk to them and decide what they need and discuss what they are happy to do. I don't list every possible option beforehand because so much will not be relevant once we get talking.
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Possibly the longest post in the history of this board that doesn't say anything.
 
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if any of the Remainers believe the Out side should have had a detailed plan then can they give an example of a plan that they would be impressed with?
 
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