Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

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How will you vote in the EU referendum ?

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HRH Custard VC said:
That I agree with you, but JC is not ever going to win an election, thats why Labour MPs want him out.
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Although that slightly jars against the facts that he's hugely more popular than any other potential Labour leader and has won elections in the past - including the Labour leadership election they said he couldn't win coz he's 'unelectable' and the two bi-elections he's been involved in.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
Too late for that now, instead of uniting and fighting the leaderless and divided Tories - which could have resulted in a push for another General Election (which would have been supported by the Lib Dems, the Greens and perhaps even UKIP and the SNP) some idiotic PLPs and Blairities decided it would be a good time to start a Civil War and make a power grab against the party members wishes!

****ing IDIOTS!
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Corbyn was unelectable, so they've turned on him and effectively knifed him in the back

I feel a bit sorry for him as a man, but he proved in the referendum build up that he's a useless leader imo.

Not being funny, but if I had 20 in a management team resign and tell me I was a useless leader, I'd have the good grace to realise I'd failed and walk.
 
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I should add that if Corbyn can't win the election then Labour really are screwed as if we get rid of him - the majority of supporters he's attracted back to the party (it was something between 100,000 and 200,000 paid up party members) will leave and vote for other parties. At a time when people are crying out for someone to represent them on the centre-left in the UK, Europe and across the world, dragging the party back towards the Tories and the right would be a damaging and regressive step - see how popular Kendall, Cooper and even Burnham were. Also how many voters Labour lost between 1997 and 2010 was huge - they continually lost voters until Corbyn reversed the trend.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
Although that slightly jars against the facts that he's hugely more popular than any other potential Labour leader and has won elections in the past - including the Labour leadership election they said he couldn't win coz he's 'unelectable' and the two bi-elections he's been involved in.
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As much as I hate to agree with Custard on this subject, I'm afraid I do.

In my view, Corbyn is way too far left, way too extreme for the average UK voter. He may be popular with the unions and the SWP etc, but you need far broader support than that to win a GE.

Plus, in my view, he's basically shot his own foot off over the last couple of weeks with his failure to make his voice heard to the core Labour voters over Brexit.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
As much as I hate to agree with Custard on this subject, I'm afraid I do.

In my view, Corbyn is way too far left, way too extreme for the average UK voter. He may be popular with the unions and the SWP etc, but you need far broader support than that to win a GE.

Plus, in my view, he's basically shot his own foot off over the last couple of weeks with his failure to make his voice heard to the core Labour voters over Brexit.
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As I say, if the Blairities (who have continually attacked Corbyn since his name got on the leadership ballot paper) - they've used to the National papers to attack Corbyn instead of attacking the Tories throughout Corbyn's reign.

He's hardly extreme leftwing, he's actually centre-left, the issue is that the political window has moved so far to the right with a neo-liberal ideology that even far-right parties like UKIP are being given air time as if their views are reasonable.

As I say there is great appetite and popularity for Corbyn (look at the thousands who joined the Momentum event to show their support for him and the 200,000 signatures on the Petition showing a Vote of Confidence in him), he's had the biggest vote/mandate in history of any leader of any party. If you remove him and you remove the support of all these hundreds of thousands of new and renewed Labour supporters, the support of the Unions and turn your back on the big calling for a left wing, honest representation in UK politics (another reason why the SNP cleaned up in Scotland even though their policies are pretty central was because Labour were seen as Tory-lite and dishonest). Then you may as well pack up Labour and consign it to the bin as it will never win, particularly not with a right wing press bias towards the Tories.
 
HRH Custard VC said:
They overspent, thats against the law, so cheated, is that to difficult for you to understand?
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I understand that quite well thanks. What I asked you was to explain your claim that farage didn't get elected for UKIP because the Tories had overspent ?

And it's 'too' by the way :)
 
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I've said all along Corbyn is unelectable as a PM and I think lots of others have come around to that view. He doesn't appeal to the centre and without that he won't win an election. Labour need to get him out the door as soon as possible and elect a leader who is far enough left leaning to maintain a chunk of the corbynite support but who is a more centre-left politician to appeal to the masses. The quicker he goes the sooner we will have a viable opposition which can only be a good thing for the country.
 
PISKIE said:
I understand that quite well thanks. What I asked you was to explain your claim that farage didn't get elected for UKIP because the Tories had overspent ?

And it's 'too' by the way :)
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To be fair it was a close fought election with the tories edging it having broken rules on campaign spending and are currently under investigation. There are plenty of examples of money and levels of propaganda having an influence on elections so it isn't that far fetched to suggest Farages chances were damaged by the Tories campaign spend.
 
glazerfodder said:
The problem with an issue as diverse as people's perceptions as to whether the EU was a good or a bad thing in their lives is the very fact that there are so many people, all with viewpoints on particular points of relevance in their day to day lives. The problem was that all of that opinion had to diverge on just an 'in' or an 'out' vote - an impossible situation with so many variables at play. Ask yourself what might have happened had there been a third option on the ballot paper - something along the lines of ''give the EU 12 months to reform'. I suspect that would have been the winner.
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seeing is everybody knew they had no intention of reforming then that was pointless
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
As I say, if the Blairities (who have continually attacked Corbyn since his name got on the leadership ballot paper) - they've used to the National papers to attack Corbyn instead of attacking the Tories throughout Corbyn's reign.

He's hardly extreme leftwing, he's actually centre-left, the issue is that the political window has moved so far to the right with a neo-liberal ideology that even far-right parties like UKIP are being given air time as if their views are reasonable.

As I say there is great appetite and popularity for Corbyn (look at the thousands who joined the Momentum event to show their support for him and the 200,000 signatures on the Petition showing a Vote of Confidence in him), he's had the biggest vote/mandate in history of any leader of any party. If you remove him and you remove the support of all these hundreds of thousands of new and renewed Labour supporters, the support of the Unions and turn your back on the big calling for a left wing, honest representation in UK politics (another reason why the SNP cleaned up in Scotland even though their policies are pretty central was because Labour were seen as Tory-lite and dishonest). Then you may as well pack up Labour and consign it to the bin as it will never win, particularly not with a right wing press bias towards the Tories.
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I still think, however you personally classify him, that's he's viewed as hard left by the electorate.

His other problem, apart from his wishy-washy non performance during the Brexit campaign, is he's hardly Mr. personality plus!

I personally know of three people - Tory voters - who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and vote for Corbyn.

I do strongly feel that he's unelectable, and if Labour go into the next election with him as leader, they will lose. Having said that, I don't think they will.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
I still think, however you personally classify him, that's he's viewed as hard left by the electorate.

His other problem, apart from his wishy-washy non performance during the Brexit campaign, is he's hardly Mr. personality plus!

I personally know of three people - Tory voters - who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and vote for Corbyn.

I do strongly feel that he's unelectable, and if Labour go into the next election with him as leader, they will lose. Having said that, I don't think they will.
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Fair enough. I feel equally that if they remove him against the wishes of the party membership and put up a Blairite like they tried doing with Kendall, Cooper or Burnham before then they will just drive huge amounts of their support away from Labour and towards other parties and find themselves either split totally or consigned to irrelevance in the next GE.
 
Smirnoffpriest said:
Fair enough. I feel equally that if they remove him against the wishes of the party membership and put up a Blairite like they tried doing with Kendall, Cooper or Burnham before then they will just drive huge amounts of their support away from Labour and towards other parties and find themselves either split totally or consigned to irrelevance in the next GE.
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I can see a split as a very real possibility. I think a leadership challenge will be made, and if the party reelects Corbyn, I can see a breakaway 'New Labour Party' being formed.
 
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