Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

There are some monumental arseholes on either side of the argument (myself included), but at the end of the day ...

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Any of you ****ers voted yet or are you all still blathering on about it?

I was second in this morning and I voted stay. Up the EU!!!

 

I voted weeks ago.

 

My thoughts today on the EU referendum:

Whilst I've voted for multiple parties in local elections, mayoral elections etc.. In every National Election, both general and European, since I was able to vote I have voted for UKIP with the strong belief that the UK would do better outside of the EU. I've waited about a decade for the opportunity to vote on our EU future.

I had hoped that this would be a referendum where party politics was set aside, where scaremongering wasn't used as a tactic and whereby the population was presented with the real facts, both pros and cons and then allowed to make an informed decision on the future of our country. Unfortunately it's been lies and dirty tactics from both sides with no proper controls on finances or content of the campaigning and propaganda. I'm dissapointed with how the referendum campaign has been fought on both sides as this should have been a real showing of a mature democracy in action.

I believe that outside of the EU we would do a strong trade deal with the EU which would allow trade to continue as normal or close to it, it is in everyone's best interests and the Eu economy is too fragile to take a large hit in trade (increased QE and negative interest rates from the ECB are signs of the state the EU is in without even looking at the situations in Mediterranean countries). I think this would happen even if it requires a deal involving free movement of labour. Whilst I would prefer an Australian style immigration system giving us proper control over how immigration effects the country, I wouldn't be against compromise on this point to enable a good deal to be done. Despite what many think there are plenty of people who completely appreciate the benefits of immigration but still believe it could be controlled in a better way and also don't see it as the main reason to pull out of the EU.

Outside of the EU I believe we would see a vast increase in trade and relations with nations around the world including but not limited to the common wealth. It is far easier to get a deal done with less interested parties and as such trade deals would be done in a far quicker, more efficient manner with our interests at the forefront of negotiations.

I believe the EU to be overly beurocratic, slow moving, stubborn to change, financially wasteful, undemocratic and its policy making is driven by the eurozone above all else.

If we pull out I would expect to see referendums in Holland, Denmark and the Czech Republic soon after, potentially followed by other referendums. It could well be the beginning of the end for the EU and a restructure of how Europe works. I genuinely believe the EU would be better being dismantled and built back up from scratch. I am not against working with Europe, trading with Europe or there being a general collective institute for the benefit of all Europeans.

I don't think security and many other areas will be effected in the ways some have suggested and you only need to look as far as the other organisations we are part of and the way we work with countries outside of the EU to see why. And things like a Scottish referendum are plain scaremongering nonsense.

I love Europe, my last couple of relationships have been with Europeans, I've travelled extensively round Europe and love the differences in culture. But for a long time I haven't thought the EU serves the best interests of the U.K.

But even as someone who has for such a long period of time and so strongly felt that we should pull out of the EU or at the very least have a proper discussion about it, I find myself today with an element of doubt in my mind. The markets will take a dip, the pound will be damaged in the short term at least, the property market will likely be effected, investment in the short term will probably slow down and the general level of uncertainty will cause difficulties in the short term. I am a property owner and run my own business (and I like to go on holiday and trips abroad) and short term negative effects will have an impact on my life. I've always wanted what is best for the country above how I will personally be effected but that selfish human element does start to kick in as it gets close to voting time.

Ultimately each person needs to try and look beyond the short term effects and the personal effects and make the decision they think long term will be best for this country and the people who will be effected by this decision for potentially hundreds of years to come. It is a decision bigger than party politics or individual gain.

Anyone who thinks this is a straightforward decision is an idiot, anyone who looks at the other side of the argument and belittles all the arguments doesn't have a grasp of what this referendum is about. I have been a strong supporter of leaving the EU but I am going over the evidence and opinions once more before I go to cast my vote. I suggest whatever side of the argument you find yourself that you take the time to understand the decision you are making and don't make your decision for the wrong reasons.

 

Looks like I wont be voting at all, Mrs luv is voting out and myself in so seems a bit pointless going there to cancel each other out.

 

Summary?

 

I voted in.

I firmly believe anyone voting out is slightly racist nutter, or someone nearing the end of their life and that by coming out of the Eu will magically make this country the industrial powerhouse it once was. Which it won't.

 

Then you're an idiot.

 

Too many points to summarise I think...

Basically I think we should vote out, I think I gave good reasons why but everyone should take the time to think about their decision as there will be effects both ways....

I tried... Bit of a **** summary... Sorry luv

 

So I'm an idiot for not blindly following a bunch of nutters with no plan so get so called sovereignty back?? Or that it will somehow stop migrants coming in?? Or it will stop poles taking your jobs?? End of the day if a pole who can't speak English threatens your livelihood you should consider retraining or going back to school.

 

You're an idiot for assuming anyone who votes out is a racist nutter, not for your choice to vote to stay in.

I've put forward my views on leaving the EU and it has nothing to do with poles stealing jobs.

 

Succinctly and well put.

 

Except for being a reply to something that wasn't said

 

I hadn't read your post. Though I'm sure it's based on rock solid facts and not ifs buts ands and maybe's. Just a shot in the dark. A hope that everything will be ok.

 

No, I accept that but taken as a single point it is correct.

While I'm sure your own stance is not based on this a good deal of outers are using the 'steal our jobs' rhetoric as their reason, and it's ****ing nonsense.

 

Having studied economics and taken a keen interest in the subject over the last decade I'd say my opinion is based on facts and research, though I also understand how others come to a different conclusion given the wide range of evidence put forward from different sources and the level of uncertainty surrounding the subject.

 

Yeah, whilst my personal preference is for an Australian style immigration system which doesn't discriminate at all based on where someone is coming from (like our current system does by having to allow unlimited EU migration) but rather focuses more on skills etc... I've said I would be OK with a compromise on movement of labour for continued access to the common market upon a brexit.

There are plenty of problems that arise from immigration but there are also all manner of benefits and it shouldn't have been such a key issue in the debate on the EU.

 

The higher the percentage of the electorate that vote the more validity the winning side will have. If only 50% of the electorate bother to vote and one side wins with 51% of that it can hardly be claimed as a resounding victory. The arguments will continue with inevitable calls for another referendum. So even if your wife is voting out it will be better if you both vote. It took a long time to get universal suffrage and it would be wrong to not use your vote.

 

It's a hit and hope with trade deals. We export more to America than we import from them. We export 33% to the eu. Yet the total imports from the eu to here amount to 5% of their total exports. To think that they will all be chomping at the bit to deal with us is utter rubbish. The whole arguement is based on bmw and Audi wanting to sell their cars here. The other bullshit arguement is we will trade more with China. We already do and it accounts for 5% of our exports. So is not being in the eu will mean the dodgy slant eyed ****ers buy more of our ****?? Course not. We are net importers from China.

The other arguement that we will somehow start manufacturing more again is bullshit, we don't as we were clearly **** at it. That's globalisation. They move to where the skill set and labour costs are better. That could end up being worse outside the eu.

The other fact that companies non British one's with head offices here will more than likely leave as they are here for the loop hole of trading with the eu. We come out they **** off.

The whole leaving thing is all based on nonsense and heresay. Because no one knows what will happen. I just think Europe will make life as hard as possible for us. And as my mate said this morning cram as many asylum seekers into the channel tunnel as humanly possible.