Enough! Mr AVB

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Spurm said:
if you are knocked out are you always concussed? I honestly don't know, anyone?
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from NHS helpline:-



Symptoms of concussion
Symptoms of concussion can be mild to severe and in some cases emergency treatment may be needed.

The most common symptoms of concussion are:

•headache
•dizziness
•nausea
•loss of balance
•confusion, such as being unaware of your surroundings
•feeling stunned or dazed
•disturbances with vision, such as double vision or seeing 'stars' or flashing lights
•difficulties with memory (see below)
Difficulties with memory can take one of two forms, or possibly both forms:

•retrograde amnesia – where you are unable to remember events that occurred before the concussion happened (this usually only affects the minutes immediately leading up to the concussion)
•anterograde amnesia – where you are unable to remember any new information or events after the concussion happened
Both retrograde and anterograde amnesia usually improve within a few hours.


Lloris ticked several of those boxes whilst on the field. The only way to establish that he DIDN'T have concussion was time, observation and a CT scan. Point is, after displaying the symptoms he did then precautions and protocols are that he should have left the field of play. Others, such as Lukaku and Flamini did the same? True, and all the more reason that new protocols are drawn up and adhered to. They used to play on in the old days? Bert Trautman? Made the same point on our board, but that was then and this is now - Gerry Byrne played a cup final for us in the sixties with a broken collarbone. No substitutes in those days. Squad of 18 and 3 subs now - there's no need for that.

Although the Lloris thing is the catalyst, it's not about Spurs or AVB, it's about what happens onwards. talking about ****ing conkers is ludicrous.

Last thing though - after the game AVB insisted it was his call and he overruled the medical staff (and pictures of the game confirm the medical staff trying to get Lloris off). today this Diesel feller said all the necessary tests had been taken before it was agreed lloris could play on. Observation and Ct scan BEFORE he went back on? :emoticon-0112-wonde

Do hope this Deisel feller is not changing his story for the benefit of the club - not only can he lose his license, but that is also a criminal offence. Just come clean, we'll all learn and the rules should be clear and rigid.
 
lennypops said:
Um - I hardly think that the rule "If you've lost consciousness due to a head collision you should not continue playing a contact sport for the remainder of a game" is that old chestnut Healthandsafetygonemad.

It's hardly the same as stopping kids playing outside or using anti-bacterial soap and food containers. I disagree with almost all modern fears of the world and disease etc but this one is very rare and very sensible.

Being knocked out does not necessarily lead to concussion. But you can't tell that at the time and have to err on the side of caution. I would not want to be a passenger on a plane where the only pilot have got knocked out just a few minutes beforehand. Concussion is only now being understood in relation to the potentially huge neurological damage it can cause.

It is not the same as banning conkers in playgrounds.
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Yeah!yeah!yeah! You beleive it if you have to. <ok>
 
In the days that I played fairly good quality Rugby, if you had suffered a concussion, that immediately brought with it a mandatory 3 week bar on playing.

The point is that, to some extent yes, football like Rugby is a contact sport. However, head injuries are to be taken very seriously. The consequences for failing to do so can be fatal!..
 
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither."

Benjamin Franklin, the greatest Pennsylvanian.

Did you know that Pennsylvania is nearly the same size as England (46,000 sq. miles vs. 50,000 sq. miles)? Do you care?
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither."

Benjamin Franklin, the greatest Pennsylvanian.

Did you know that Pennsylvania is nearly the same size as England (46,000 sq. miles vs. 50,000 sq. miles)? Do you care?
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a) Most British people will know nothing about where Pennsylvania is, what it looks like or how big it is.

b) That a State in the US is nearly as big/bigger than England will be very unsurprising to most British people. We know our country is small and that yours is big. This is not a concern for us. If anything it just re-emphasises how wonderful England is that it can have such relevance in the world whilst being so tiny.

c) You seem like an intelligent, enlightened American. Going on about size of x, y or z will, if you're not careful, put you into the "insufferable, ignorant American who's obsessed with scale with no idea of quality" in many British people's eyes. I would not be surprised if the biggest ketchup bottle, casino, bible, pizza, butt-plug whatever is in America too. I can imagine them all on a postcard and being tourist attractions in some hellish corner of Arizona or Florida. But they strangely have very little attraction to me and I will not be seeking them out.

On the main point of Franklin's quote (a man who was also well versed in things European) I don't think he was referring to the essential liberty of being allowed to injure yourself permanently cos you're dazed and confused after being knocked out.

You Americans and your funny ideas about freedom. I swear it's the essential problem with the US - this obsession to a very, very nebulous and misunderstood concept. Living in America I find that in many ways people have much less freedom than those in Europe. In fact I would say that the UK is a much freer place than the US for myriad reasons. Also freedom can mean freedom from, not just freedom to.

So freedom from peer/employer/self-delusional pressure to keep playing when you've just been knocked out may be more valuable than the freedom of being allowed to keep playing if you reckon you're up to it.

I like that in the UK we have freedom from individuals wandering round with guns. In the US someone carrying round a lethal weapon is somehow seen as essential for individuals' freedom. Cos, you know - being able to kill stuff makes you free. As one obvious example.

The other one is the idea that politicians just mess with your freedom and are all just greedy people getting in the way of freedom. As if normal, poor people will somehow be more "free" if there was no government and corporations were allowed a totally free rein to do what the hell they want. Cos, you know, the head of Apple definitely isn't interested in money. And having people in power who are elected and whose stated aim is to serve the people is not as good as people who are not elected, are answerable only to shareholders and whose stated aim is simply to make as much money as possible. I really don't get that one.
 
lennypops said:
a) Most British people will know nothing about where Pennsylvania is, what it looks like or how big it is.

b) That a State in the US is nearly as big/bigger than England will be very unsurprising to most British people. We know our country is small and that yours is big. This is not a concern for us. If anything it just re-emphasises how wonderful England is that it can have such relevance in the world whilst being so tiny.

c) You seem like an intelligent, enlightened American. Going on about size of x, y or z will, if you're not careful, put you into the "insufferable, ignorant American who's obsessed with scale with no idea of quality" in many British people's eyes. I would not be surprised if the biggest ketchup bottle, casino, bible, pizza, butt-plug whatever is in America too. I can imagine them all on a postcard and being tourist attractions in some hellish corner of Arizona or Florida. But they strangely have very little attraction to me and I will not be seeking them out.

On the main point of Franklin's quote (a man who was also well versed in things European) I don't think he was referring to the essential liberty of being allowed to injure yourself permanently cos you're dazed and confused after being knocked out.

You Americans and your funny ideas about freedom. I swear it's the essential problem with the US - this obsession to a very, very nebulous and misunderstood concept. Living in America I find that in many ways people have much less freedom than those in Europe. In fact I would say that the UK is a much freer place than the US for myriad reasons. Also freedom can mean freedom from, not just freedom to.

So freedom from peer/employer/self-delusional pressure to keep playing when you've just been knocked out may be more valuable than the freedom of being allowed to keep playing if you reckon you're up to it.

I like that in the UK we have freedom from individuals wandering round with guns. In the US someone carrying round a lethal weapon is somehow seen as essential for individuals' freedom. Cos, you know - being able to kill stuff makes you free. As one obvious example.

The other one is the idea that politicians just mess with your freedom and are all just greedy people getting in the way of freedom. As if normal, poor people will somehow be more "free" if there was no government and corporations were allowed a totally free rein to do what the hell they want. Cos, you know, the head of Apple definitely isn't interested in money. And having people in power who are elected and whose stated aim is to serve the people is not as good as people who are not elected, are answerable only to shareholders and whose stated aim is simply to make as much money as possible. I really don't get that one.
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I'm not sure I could have come up with a more xenophobic over-reaction to an innocent post if I tried to.

I personally am a huge fan of Pennsylvania, Franklin, and the US (largely), and enjoy the international flavour that RWAEB's posts bring.
 
Wandering Yid said:
I'm not sure I could have come up with a more xenophobic over-reaction to an innocent post if I tried to.

I personally am a huge fan of Pennsylvania, Franklin, and the US (largely), and enjoy the international flavour that RWAEB's posts bring.
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Settle down! Xenophobic? I live in America, married to an American with a lovely American step-daughter. I was mostly warning about how Brits might take Americans going on about their State being bigger than England. Cos I, more than most, am aware of anti-American British xenophobia.

God - I hope what I wrote did not come over as angry or pissy. Guess it did since you think it was. Sorry. It wasn't meant to - honestly. I have a lot of time for RWAEB, as I hope previous posts have made clear.

I also like America a lot but also have good cause to see its faults. But don't worry - I could spent a much longer time slagging off Britain and the odd notions that British people have about stuff. Which is not to say that I don't love Britain and British people.

(The "freedom" thing is a bit of a bug-bear for me, though. You don't know what it's like living somewhere where people have bumper stickers saying things like "Exercise your freedom - buy a gun". I am not kidding. At that point the word "freedom" is becoming a very strange and dangerous thing indeed).
 
Oh God - I just re-read my post and it can EASILY come over as pissy. Sorry. Bloody hell - maybe I should start using emoticons. Or just shutting the **** up. No - that'll never happen. Emoticons it is. :emoticon-0101-sadsm:
 
I always thought Franklin was a New Englander by birth and English by decent as the majority were at the time of the
American Revolution or as some say the First American Civil War.
The Quote about Liberty , I think addresses that arguably 1/3 rd of Americans were loyalists , and another 1/3rd sat on
the fence as a warning from the active pro revolutionary 1/3rd.
Liberty for some but maybe not for you if you do not agree me ?
The Founding Fathers were very much looking after their own self interests as the Government had blocked any
expansion west to protect the native Indian nations.
The British were stupid and should have given the colonists representation in Parliament as before the conflict they
regarded themselves as "Englishmen" .
The sad fact is after the Revolution many of the loyalists were cleansed not ethnically as they were mainly from
the same stock and forcibly resettled in Canada .
Liberty of Mind?
 
lennypops said:
Oh God - I just re-read my post and it can EASILY come over as pissy. Sorry. Bloody hell - maybe I should start using emoticons. Or just shutting the **** up. No - that'll never happen. Emoticons it is. :emoticon-0101-sadsm:
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No worries Lenny, misunderstanding clearly, without knowing your US connections it seemed a little unfair.

On the Freedom point - I think they're justified in basing a large part of their national identity on it, though I agree it has become a little ironic since the mid 20th century. When you think of the founding fathers you think of liberation from an oppressive and undemocratic govenment, no taxation without representation etc, that clearly ties in well with the Freedom ideology. Support that with the nation of immigrants rhetoric - Irish Catholics fleeing centuries of English oppression, Italians escaping the economic turmoil of unification, Eastern Europeans escaping poverty - All went to the US looking for freedom from something.
 
Wandering Yid said:
No worries Lenny, misunderstanding clearly, without knowing your US connections it seemed a little unfair.

On the Freedom point - I think they're justified in basing a large part of their national identity on it, though I agree it has become a little ironic since the mid 20th century. When you think of the founding fathers you think of liberation from an oppressive and undemocratic govenment, no taxation without representation etc, that clearly ties in well with the Freedom ideology. Support that with the nation of immigrants rhetoric - Irish Catholics fleeing centuries of English oppression, Italians escaping the economic turmoil of unification, Eastern Europeans escaping poverty - All went to the US looking for freedom from something.
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The land of the free,unless you were black!
 
lennypops said:
Oh God - I just re-read my post and it can EASILY come over as pissy. Sorry. Bloody hell - maybe I should start using emoticons. Or just shutting the **** up. No - that'll never happen. Emoticons it is. :emoticon-0101-sadsm:
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Disagree, I thought it was a great post and thank you for it. <ok>
 
Hoddle Is A God said:
This is a little OT, but I was just thinking about what Bill Nick (infamously said), about failing aiming high vs succeeding aiming low, and pondering on what a complete load of bollocks it is.

Success is success, failure is failure. Surely, it is better to succeed than to fail? If a team, say, Everton, aims low and wins the league (ie. gains success), and we aim for CL footy, but end up finishing 5th (yet again) (ie, failure), who will history write down as the more successful club?

Exactly.
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Bill Nick's quote is all about Spurs playing with style, panache, excitement. So even if we don't win, it won't be because we went about things in a less than stylish way. I would rather the club adheres to Bill Nick's edict than the dull uninspiring football we are currently playing.
 
St Nicholsons' quote is about setting your ambitions high, and if failing to reach them then
doing so with your head held high and not with a whimper.
 
Aw shucks, all Americans are welcome, aren't they? We nearly speak the same language. Soccer is so popular over there that we're bound to be inundated with well informed opinions about the game <doh>

I never knew Michael Flatley was American, but, frankly, who gives a riverdance?

Pennsylvania 6-5000 was a song by Glenn Miller. And was performed by The Muppets.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
I typed in that I had a headache, dizziness and nausea to NHS Direct, and they told me I had three brain tumours, a fractured skull and that bit out of Scanners was about to happen.
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The evidence of the erratic crap that you offer on these boards would probably support that diagnosis.
 
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