England v Italy match thread
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Found myself frustrated with Rooney once again.
I thought Carroll was very good in terms of his first touch and bringing Rooney into play. But Rooney's pass selection and movement was awful.
I thought Carroll was very good in terms of his first touch and bringing Rooney into play. But Rooney's pass selection and movement was awful.
Forza Azzurriiiiii wowowoo
Anyone else not feeling very confident when Ashley Young is on the ball? - its almost like he hesitates to go forward when he plays, he needs more conviction when he does, when he was at Villa its why I rated Marc Albrighton better than him and Albrightons first touch is sublime (see a goal against Fulham) ok he had a bad season last season but look who Villa were playing under - and Ox too, a much better winger.
I'm usually pretty positive, but we were woeful last night, against an average team.
The last half of extra time was absolute one-way traffic, our lot had no legs at all, completely drained.
Surprised myself at how little I cared during the shoot-out because the realisation had already set in; Germany would have embarrassed us. We are not ready for them, not by a long way.
I'm torn on Rooney, he does seem to be garbage in an England shirt, but at the same time, I feel there is too much pressure on him.
Fact is, we have way too many average players; Johnson, Milner, Henderson, Parker, Young, Carroll, Welbeck, Walcott.
The last half of extra time was absolute one-way traffic, our lot had no legs at all, completely drained.
Surprised myself at how little I cared during the shoot-out because the realisation had already set in; Germany would have embarrassed us. We are not ready for them, not by a long way.
I'm torn on Rooney, he does seem to be garbage in an England shirt, but at the same time, I feel there is too much pressure on him.
Fact is, we have way too many average players; Johnson, Milner, Henderson, Parker, Young, Carroll, Welbeck, Walcott.
Yep. Pretty much agree with all that. Better than being embarressed by Germany, which would of been the reality. Like you, with spot kicks, I just felt get it over with, without the emotion that used to bother me when younger. Rooney, our greatest hope in a limited squad, just never does it does he. Could well be pressure, of which I think the England team does get crippled with despite lack of ability technically. Oh well, theres always the Saints, more dynamic, more exciting!
Again it has been interesting to read some of your posts re England's performance. While we all seem to have our own feelings and disagreements, regarding individual players. The one thing that seems to be common with all is that overall England were not at their best and not even close. It is true England won their group but in all honesty it was not the hardest group was it?
In last nights match we were woeful at times but when we attacked we were a force to be reckoned with.....and just like the Italians, we had our chances to have won the game. If the Referee had seen some of the shirt pulling going on in the box and handed out some penalties which should have happened, we would have won the game hands down. That would have been a terrible injustice to the Italians, in one way at least. Last nights result was right if not acheived in the best way. The Italians are going to have their work cut out if they cannot finish a lot better.
I just hope that last nights set up and the whole England tournament's set up under RH is not the way he intends to carry on playing in the future that would be a huge disappointment to me. Don't get me wrong, I believe in giving everyone a chance to change things and to set their mark. I'm just saying the way we played in this tournament is not for me!!
In last nights match we were woeful at times but when we attacked we were a force to be reckoned with.....and just like the Italians, we had our chances to have won the game. If the Referee had seen some of the shirt pulling going on in the box and handed out some penalties which should have happened, we would have won the game hands down. That would have been a terrible injustice to the Italians, in one way at least. Last nights result was right if not acheived in the best way. The Italians are going to have their work cut out if they cannot finish a lot better.
I just hope that last nights set up and the whole England tournament's set up under RH is not the way he intends to carry on playing in the future that would be a huge disappointment to me. Don't get me wrong, I believe in giving everyone a chance to change things and to set their mark. I'm just saying the way we played in this tournament is not for me!!
Not only was it not the hardest group, but both France and Ukraine outplayed England, Sweden was a quite even game. By all means all seven points were picked up through good fortune rather than good ability.
I'm not sure I agree there should have been penalties - give penalties for the shirt tugging that went on there and you have to give penalties on every corner ever taken.
I wasn't broken hearted when we missed the penalties. Of course I would have liked to have won, but did not want to go through that again against the Germans. Also I was never hopeful in this tournament so the Q/F was an achievement for the present side. I'm sure we will regroup for the WC qualifiers.
Hodgson did well with what he had and good to see the spirit return to the team. He was proved right about Terry who played his heart out. Hart looks like he will become a good England keeper. It was a better tournament that we could have hoped.
Hodgson did well with what he had and good to see the spirit return to the team. He was proved right about Terry who played his heart out. Hart looks like he will become a good England keeper. It was a better tournament that we could have hoped.
Hi Fran, I'm sorry but you are wrong. I think England played just as bad as we did in the 2010 World Cup. Yes we had some passion and were "together" as a group, but let's not kid ourselves, we were very poor. I said it after the France game, the Sweden game, the Ukraine game and now the Italy game, we do not know how to play the modern international game.
If you mean it was better than could have hoped because we got out the group, then yes, that is fact we did get out the group, but in terms of football, we were no better than 2010.
We need to change.
A lot of people seem to be ignoring the fact we were very poor because we got results, but I agree with you entirely.
It's not about what we have, it's about how we think "football". We are still stuck in the 70's. We need to change at the bottom. Focus on the ten year olds and forget the first team. You may think that is nuts but it is the only way to go.
Dan‽;3039888 said:
absolutely Dan. We went into it with low expectations, got a couple of results and then wey hey... we thought we were great. We were poor in all our games.
English football is miles behind. We think exciting Premier League box to box football is the best, it's not. It is ok to have an exciting product like that, but just understand that that mentality will keep the national team behind the best by a long way.
Roy now has time to play england a new way, i dont know how, but roy got 2 years til world cup.
The positives outweigh the negatives for me. the negatives have been done to death on this thread, so here's a few positives to balance them out;
1) There appears to have been a good team spirit, with no rampant egos and no cliques, unlike South Africa.
2) Roy Hodgson, despite his cautious approach, is not afraid to gamble when he thinks it's called for. Starting Alex O-C against France proved this.
3) His substitutions were often inspired
4) In Joe Hart we have a keeper up there in stature with Shilton and Seaman. The man never shuts up, that's exactly what you want from a keeper.
5) For 20-30 mins of the first half we were every bit as good as Italy. Make no mistake, this is a good Italian side.
6) We were solid in defence throughout the tournament. This may be boring, but it's always the best place to start.
7) we have all sorts of options going forward that will allow us in time to develop into a serious attacking threat. Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Carroll, Wellbeck all showed up well and promised better to come.
Finally, my hope and belief is that under this manager, we can develop a style of play that suits our strenghs. We're England, we don't thread the ball through the eye of a needle, we smash down the door. We just need to find a way of doing that without keep giving the ball away.
1) There appears to have been a good team spirit, with no rampant egos and no cliques, unlike South Africa.
2) Roy Hodgson, despite his cautious approach, is not afraid to gamble when he thinks it's called for. Starting Alex O-C against France proved this.
3) His substitutions were often inspired
4) In Joe Hart we have a keeper up there in stature with Shilton and Seaman. The man never shuts up, that's exactly what you want from a keeper.
5) For 20-30 mins of the first half we were every bit as good as Italy. Make no mistake, this is a good Italian side.
6) We were solid in defence throughout the tournament. This may be boring, but it's always the best place to start.
7) we have all sorts of options going forward that will allow us in time to develop into a serious attacking threat. Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Carroll, Wellbeck all showed up well and promised better to come.
Finally, my hope and belief is that under this manager, we can develop a style of play that suits our strenghs. We're England, we don't thread the ball through the eye of a needle, we smash down the door. We just need to find a way of doing that without keep giving the ball away.
Please don't be offended and I don't mean to be rude, however your post sums up our problems as a footballing nation. Let's take point 6, the defense. People started saying how good our defense was BEFORE the Ukraine game! We had conceded three goals in two games and two of those against the poorest Swedish side for years. I listened to the radio last week and Alvin Martin (ex-England defender) said that he wouldn't swap the English back 4 for the Spanish back 4. He got loads of calls in support of this until he went on to add that the team with the best defensive record in the world over the last so many years is Spain. Hey??? But they have a defense that you wouldn't swap for ours? Alvin then went on to say that defending starts by having the ball, not by starting with the defense. You can have the best defense in the world, but if yo keep giving the ball away (you do alude to that in your last line), then you will not win.
We don't get unlucky giving the ball away, it is in our mentality to launch it forward. The most commonly used words by the commentator last night (and I was saying this out loud from about 50 minutes onwards last night) were: "Hart, flicked on by Carroll .... Italy come again"
We must not get deluded. Forget the current crop and the next crop too. We have the wrong mentality towards football as a nation. We need to change and say that in ten years time, changes we make now will see those green shoots coming though.
Spain's back line never gets tested, because they keep the ball in midfield. England's back four were under constant threat throughout the tournament because we were overwhelmed in midfield at some point in every game. Roy can sort this out, given time.
As for "Hart, flicked on by Carroll", I agree that can be very frustrating when it's every time. But if Rooney and Carroll had a better understanding, and we were forward in numbers, that could still be effective. what about all the times Saints knocked it long to Ricky last season, and he held it up and brought others into play?
Once again, we are England. There's no point trying to be Spain. So stick the big man up front and raise the tempo. Sport, every sport, is all about rythmn, and imposing your's on the opposition. We need to find a way to make the world dance to our tune. It won't be tika-tika, and it won't be a samba, it might not even be pretty, but it's the only way to go.
Seems like we have have completely opposing views on football. I'm not offended by that, hope you're not either.
Saints try and play out from the back and are not afraid to pass backwards to keep possession, but when we do this some fans want it lobbed forward. I sometimes think these are the same fans who decry West Ham football. Both styles have their place in football, but teams should be able to do both. England were good at last ditch defending, but it shouldn't have been necessary so often. Perhaps Hodgson needs to speak to Adkins and his coaches
I just want to play the stats game... I know stats can be twisted and misleading but these seem to tell a story. England, at all times, on the right.
France:
Shots: 21-5
On target: 7-1
Pass accuracy: 92%-82%
Passes: 690-378
Possession: 65-35
Sweden:
Shots: 15-16
On target: 7-6
Pass accuracy: 80%-83%
Passes: 497-493
Possession: 50-50
Ukraine:
Shots: 16-10
On target: 5-3
Pass accuracy: 85%-81%
Passes: 487-368
Possession: 57-43
Italy:
Shots: 36-9
On target: 8-1
Pass accuracy: 89%-73%
Passes: 894-421
Possession: 68-32
While confirming the Italy game was absolute murder, this also shows that Sweden is the only game England can claim to have statistically matched their opponents. An interesting note is that England never exceeded 83% pass accuracy, not exactly showing a great side in terms of keeping the ball, with an average possession only worsened by Greece and Ireland adding further evidence. We also conceded the second most shots per game (22.3), beaten only by Ireland (22.7) - so that's why everyone praises Hodgson's defense!
All this says to me is England were outplayed three times (twice brutally, once by a team ranked below Wales) and matched once. If this counts as "playing well" then my word I'd be terrified of an off form England side.
France:
Shots: 21-5
On target: 7-1
Pass accuracy: 92%-82%
Passes: 690-378
Possession: 65-35
Sweden:
Shots: 15-16
On target: 7-6
Pass accuracy: 80%-83%
Passes: 497-493
Possession: 50-50
Ukraine:
Shots: 16-10
On target: 5-3
Pass accuracy: 85%-81%
Passes: 487-368
Possession: 57-43
Italy:
Shots: 36-9
On target: 8-1
Pass accuracy: 89%-73%
Passes: 894-421
Possession: 68-32
While confirming the Italy game was absolute murder, this also shows that Sweden is the only game England can claim to have statistically matched their opponents. An interesting note is that England never exceeded 83% pass accuracy, not exactly showing a great side in terms of keeping the ball, with an average possession only worsened by Greece and Ireland adding further evidence. We also conceded the second most shots per game (22.3), beaten only by Ireland (22.7) - so that's why everyone praises Hodgson's defense!
All this says to me is England were outplayed three times (twice brutally, once by a team ranked below Wales) and matched once. If this counts as "playing well" then my word I'd be terrified of an off form England side.