What is it about we Sunderland supporters when it comes to scapegoating. The sesason is not even close to starting and we are up and running, now it is Honeymans turn. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying folk shouldn’t critizise. Everyone sees the game different no probs - it’s just the pure vitriol that pours out sometimes. I’m a ‘glass half full’ type of bloke so ålease can I ask - by all means give your opinion but moderate the acid comments. I trust Jack Ross. KTF
See, I agree about ‘scapegoating’, I don’t think that applies here. He’s not that bad a player but he’s had 2 season where he’s had no influence whatsoever. That’s not being made a scapegoat, that’s verified and evidenced opinion of the lad being a bit short. To be a scapegoat you’ve got to be unfairly targeted and criticised. I’d wish him nothing but the best elsewhere, but how many games do you give someone to ‘find their feet’?.
Nads I often find myself agreeing with you but was there not a point last season when Honeyman was out the team and we totally missed his pressing and energy and were ****e, nlot competing at all? I might have imagined it but thought best to put it out there. Anyone with a tape measure could give evidence that the lads a bit short like so I'll give you that one!
Early in the season his pressing, the position he held us in high up the pitch, and his recycling of possession into attacking positions was the key. He lost his way as the season went on, but I can understand why Ross likes him.
To be fair Norton, I lost my way as the season went on which is why I'm not talking in absolutes and was asking a question based on vague memories. Wasn't even sure it was Honeyman haha! Cheers for reminding me, genuinely pleased I hadn't imagined that had happened for a little while anyway.
It’s true that we appeared to miss him when he was injured, I certainly thought so myself at the time. Then he came back and you realised it was more a collective dip from the team. Like I say, I’m not gonna slate the lad, we simply need better, we need more from CM it’s a real area of concern, and he hasn’t got any of the guile we are desperate for in there.
I personally like Honeyman, at his best he is our most creative player in mid field, and has a good engine on him. He has faded from his early promise, as has Gooch, but it is too soon to be writing either off. The shape of the team is crucial to get the best out of this squad and I do not envy JR having to sort it, as for the life of me I cant see our best team either. I do think we will struggle to match the physical challenge of this league in the middle of the park, and I would not go down this route with the players available, but we do stand a chance of running rings round them, and for me, this is what I would aim for, give the crowd something to get excited about,OaU.
I don't see a role for Loovens or Power Maybe Honeyman and Oviedo up for sale. BigJon or Burge Flanagan + Willis (Ozturk?) + Baldwin McGlauchlin/O'Nien + Leadbitter/McGeoch + Gooch/Hume 1 of Embleton/Robson 2 of Kimpioka, Maguire, McGeady, Watmore 1 of Wyke or Grigg U23s for Patterson, Diamond & Sammut
Can I just query your words ‘verified’ and ‘evidenced’. Where is this evidence and who verified it. Again I am only taking the part of devils advocate. KTF
Can't understand why Loovens and Power are going to Portugal. Loovens hasn't played for months and won't have improved his sharpness and Power is apparently injured and will miss the start of the season. Not sure also as to why Honeyman isn't going, any body any idea why?
His lack of influenced was ‘evidenced’ by me watching him, and ‘verified’ by me watching him on multiple occasions. As it was my opinion, that’s the only evidence, verification and justification I need. Enough? Or do you have a counter argument of him dominating games, driving us forward, and adding value to the team?
No intention of scapegoating but imo he is not captain material and is he a first 11 choice? I was wondering why he wasnt in the squad and part of the thread turned into a few joke comments. If Honeyman is wearing the shirt he will have my 100% backing.
You misunderstand me as You now retract ‘evidenced & verified’ and use ‘my opinion’. As I said earlier we all have our opinions and I mean they are sacrocant. But they are just that ‘opinions’. KTF
I clearly used the word ‘opinion’ as part of the original post. I don’t know where you’re trying to go this with but as always I stand wholly by my original post. Are you trying to say I can’t form an opinion by verifying and evidencing it? It would be a hollow opinion if I didn’t, one without backup. And opinion should always be justified. Mine is. If you’ve got a point, come back with it. Strikes me you’re trying to be smart around something, something which makes absolute and utter sense. Beyond that, I explained my wording as clearly as it could ever need to be. I’ve never heard something so ludicrous as ‘an opinion can’t be evidenced or verified’. I refer you to the entire court trial system.
According to the ECHO Honeymoon didn’t travel because he needed treatment for an injury. Of course this has often been used just before a sale/transfer - time will tell. KTF
Nads I am really not here on a wind up or trying to attack you or your opinions. I just think there is a great difference between opinion and evidence - but it’s not large enough to cause bad feeling. I enjoy NOT606 and enjoy the variety of viewpoints - Perhaps I have a tendency toward the pedandic - thats me.
No bad feeling at all mate, just that you’re thought process is wrong. I said in the original post it was my opinion, and I justified my use of the other words. I can verify and evidence my opinion. There’s a legal rule called ‘opinion evidence’ rule. It’s pretty much exactly as I described to you after your first response. All opinions whether conscious or subconsciously have been ‘verified, justified, evidenced’ in your head. If not then you’re just speculating, surely? As I said, no bad feeling, but if someone wants to call me out on my views, I will justify it 100 times out of 100. If someone has a counter view, I asked for yours, I’ll take it onboard and if I feel appropriate I’ll reconsider. There is nothing to suggest George is anything more than a water carrier.
