Election 2024

[PINKIE]

I think the mistake Labour are making right now is not going after the people who can afford to pay more. Their plans regarding benefits are also needed but they've been daft enough to go after pensioners then people on benefits before the people who probably could take a hit. If done the other way around people would still moan but there would at least be done sense in their approach.

Yeah agreed. I think the WInter fuel allowance and benefits amendments are basically sound policies, but from a PR perspective they are a massive own goal, especially when the wealthy, who have benefited from a system that rewards them aren’t being hauled in to pay their fair share.

I know Labour have ended the non dom status and removed the tax exemption for public schools, but they really need to close the tax loopholes that the rich use to move their wealth around and avoid paying what they owe, and as mentioned id like to see a specific wealth tax aimed at the very wealthy with assets over £10m

 

[PINKIE]

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[pieguts]

I worked for the NHS for nearly 20 years and can confirm it is bulging at the seams with middle management.

I was on a band 7 wage when I was there as I was heading up an entire dept and managing around 36 people. But my managers were people on £60k+ who just number crunched, gave out impossible task lists and never had any patient contact.

The worst kind of people to employ, expensive, ineffective and just made my life more difficult than it should have been

Often said that NHS middle managers were all estate agents in previous lives and were just able to BS there way into cushy numbers with little accountability.

 

[PINKIE]

Often said that NHS middle managers were all estate agents in previous lives and were just able to BS there way into cushy numbers with little accountability.

You know those people who are employed to check the work that other people have already done.

That's NHS middle management for you

 

[Archers Road]

Often said that NHS middle managers were all estate agents in previous lives and were just able to BS there way into cushy numbers with little accountability.

I spent a lifetime trying to blag my way into a gig like that, but never managed to pull it off.

 

[pieguts]

The problem with the NHS, Network Rail and Local Government is they are top loaded with middle management

Instead of spending extra money they receive on where its needed it is spent on layers of middle management with spreadsheets trying to prove the money has not been wasted, I know because I spent 14 years in Local Government and 22 years working for Network Rail or as a Contractor doing work for Network Rail/Railtrack

Never worked for the NHS but the structure appears to be the same and people I know who have worked or are working in the NHS all have the same complaints

So the NOT606 most vocal anti trade union member spent a large portion of his working life working in a unionised workplace where even as a contractor his salary would have been linked to the NR/ Railtrack pay structure. You couldn’t make it up

 

[duggie2000]

So the NOT606 most vocal anti trade union member spent a large portion of his working life working in a unionised workplace where even as a contractor his salary would have been linked to the NR/ Railtrack pay structure. You couldn’t make it up

Network Rail I was freelance or working for a contractor on projects NO union involved

Local Government never joined a union

 

[pieguts]

Network Rail I was freelance or working for a contractor on projects NO union involved

Local Government never joined a union

You’re missing the point Duggie. Whether a union member or not, your salary was linked the the pay structure that railway unions or civil service unions negotiated.
I’m not a union member but my salary is linked to the pay structure that my company’s blue collar union members fight for.
So reality is, your generous pension and fancy car are thanks to unions who negotiated decent wages which you were, even as a contractor, able to “piggy back” on. Glad we’ve finally managed to clear that up

 

[duggie2000]

You’re missing the point Duggie. Whether a union member or not, your salary was linked the the pay structure that railway unions or civil service unions negotiated.
I’m not a union member but my salary is linked to the pay structure that my company’s blue collar union members fight for.
So reality is, your generous pension and fancy car are thanks to unions who negotiated decent wages which you were, even a contractor, able to “piggy back” on. Glad we’ve finally managed to clear that up

No. you are missing the point, as a freelance I was not linked in any way to NR wage structure, they tried for five years to get me to join direct but I refused because my income would have been halved, and over half the time I was with a company who tendered for and won work on projects, nothing whatsoever to do with Trade Unions

I bet every school report for you said Must try harder

 

[pieguts]

No. you are missing the point, as a freelance I was not linked in any way to NR wage structure, they tried for five years to get me to join direct but I refused because my income would have been halved, and over half the time I was with a company who tendered for and won work on projects, nothing whatsoever to do with Trade Unions

I bet every school report for you said Must try harder

Your hatred for unions is scrambling your brain if you honestly can’t see the link. Maybe NR just have a “Duggie” pay structure
My school reports were fine fella, usually said I was a model pupil who was capable of rational thought. Of course that could be because the teaching union was trying to influence me

 

[Welshie]

Duggie getting battered here

 

[Peej]

can see why people dislike trade unions….what have they ever done for the workers….


Involved in the creation of the NHS through their campaigning. Improved wage and sick pay. 40 hour week, 2 day weekend, legal protection, minimum wage, anti discrimination….

yuck.

 

[duggie2000]

Your hatred for unions is scrambling your brain if you honestly can’t see the link. Maybe NR just have a “Duggie” pay structure
My school reports were fine fella, usually said I was a model pupil who was capable of rational thought. Of course that could be because the teaching union was trying to influence me

I am not going to keep arguing with you so you can get likes from the left wing loonies on this forum but I will explain one last time

To work as Freelance I had to have a Private Limited Company and a qualified Accountant to verify all aspects of the end of year accounts

The rate was negotiated through the Agency I had to be employed by, they negotiated the best rate for all the people who carried out the work through them

Up to six hours was half days pay, six hours to twenty four hours was a full day, what trade union would negotiate that

No sick pay, if you couldn't work you didn't get paid, what trade union would negotiate that

No holiday pay, if you went on holiday you didn't get paid, what trade union would negotiate that,

If for any reason I was needed outside of normal hours, weekends, bank holidays etc I only got the flat rate. what trade union would negotiate that

On the day the project was finished or my part was finished I was unemployed, no redundancy etc, what trade union would negotiate that

I and all other freelancers were employed on the basis that for any reason we were sacked, (never happened to me but did happen to some) you cleared your desk immediately without the right to reply, what trade union would negotiate that

As for hating them, only what they did to the Car Industry, Motor Bike Industry and General Manufacturing by wildcat strikes etc

There are mayn things I agree with, on one of my first projects as a Junior Surveyor the Labourers were not paid if they could not work due to Inclement Weather, bricklayers, carpenters etc were and the Union won the case that Labourers would be paid the basic rate if unable to work through no fault of their own

Unions won the battle to get sick pay and holiday pay which I agree with

My main point was I did not join a union or had a union fight any battles forme and I did much better than those that joined a union and relied totally on them for how many hours they worked or how much they were paid, if I wanted or needed an increase in pay and I couldn't get it I changed jobs to somewhere I was paid more, very mercenary of me but that is how the real world works

 

[brb]

I am not going to keep arguing with you so you can get likes from the left wing loonies on this forum but I will explain one last time

To work as Freelance I had to have a Private Limited Company and a qualified Accountant to verify all aspects of the end of year accounts

The rate was negotiated through the Agency I had to be employed by, they negotiated the best rate for all the people who carried out the work through them

Up to six hours was half days pay, six hours to twenty four hours was a full day, what trade union would negotiate that

No sick pay, if you couldn't work you didn't get paid, what trade union would negotiate that

No holiday pay, if you went on holiday you didn't get paid, what trade union would negotiate that,

If for any reason I was needed outside of normal hours, weekends, bank holidays etc I only got the flat rate. what trade union would negotiate that

On the day the project was finished or my part was finished I was unemployed, no redundancy etc, what trade union would negotiate that

I and all other freelancers were employed on the basis that for any reason we were sacked, (never happened to me but did happen to some) you cleared your desk immediately without the right to reply, what trade union would negotiate that

As for hating them, only what they did to the Car Industry, Motor Bike Industry and General Manufacturing by wildcat strikes etc

There are mayn things I agree with, on one of my first projects as a Junior Surveyor the Labourers were not paid if they could not work due to Inclement Weather, bricklayers, carpenters etc were and the Union won the case that Labourers would be paid the basic rate if unable to work through no fault of their own

Unions won the battle to get sick pay and holiday pay which I agree with

My main point was I did not join a union or had a union fight any battles forme and I did much better than those that joined a union and relied totally on them for how many hours they worked or how much they were paid, if I wanted or needed an increase in pay and I couldn't get it I changed jobs to somewhere I was paid more, very mercenary of me but that is how the real world works

The work regulations changed in 2010, that after 12 weeks, agency workers are entitled to exactly the same rights as directly employed staff. So me thinking of your age, it might not have applied at the time period you are discussing, but I expect it would today.

 

[duggie2000]

The work regulations changed in 2010, that after 12 weeks, agency workers are entitled to exactly the same rights as directly employed staff. So me thinking of your age, it might not have applied at the time period you are discussing, but I expect it would today.

We were not Agency workers in the sense that the people affected by that were, we were essentially Private Companies selling our souls to the highest bidder

 

[brb]

We were not Agency workers in the sense that the people affected by that were, we were essentially Private Companies selling our souls to the highest bidder

It's still agency mate, where you can hop to the highest bidder and they can do nothing to stop you. Unless you are saying you were contractually tied?

 

[brb]

The Employment Law on it...

• Key Entitlements:
  This "equal treatment" applies to key areas such as:
  • Pay: Agency workers are entitled to the same rate of pay as a comparable employee, including basic pay, overtime, shift allowances, and bonuses directly linked to work performance.
  • Working Time: They are entitled to the same working hours and rest periods as a directly employed worker.
  • Holiday Entitlements: Agency workers are entitled to the same holiday pay and annual leave as a comparable employee.
• What's Not Included:
  While agency workers are entitled to equal treatment on pay, holidays, and working time, this doesn't extend to all terms and conditions of employment. For example, they are not automatically entitled to the same level of sick pay, pension schemes, or redundancy pay as directly employed workers.
• Rights from Day One:
  Some rights apply from the first day of an assignment, such as the right to the National Minimum Wage, protection from discrimination, and the right to a minimum holiday entitlement.
• Agency's Responsibilities:
  Agencies have a responsibility to ensure that their workers receive equal treatment after the 12-week period and to provide the hirer with information about relevant terms and conditions.

 

[duggie2000]

The Employment Law on it...

• Key Entitlements:
  This "equal treatment" applies to key areas such as:
  • Pay: Agency workers are entitled to the same rate of pay as a comparable employee, including basic pay, overtime, shift allowances, and bonuses directly linked to work performance.
  • Working Time: They are entitled to the same working hours and rest periods as a directly employed worker.
  • Holiday Entitlements: Agency workers are entitled to the same holiday pay and annual leave as a comparable employee.
• What's Not Included:
  While agency workers are entitled to equal treatment on pay, holidays, and working time, this doesn't extend to all terms and conditions of employment. For example, they are not automatically entitled to the same level of sick pay, pension schemes, or redundancy pay as directly employed workers.
• Rights from Day One:
  Some rights apply from the first day of an assignment, such as the right to the National Minimum Wage, protection from discrimination, and the right to a minimum holiday entitlement.
• Agency's Responsibilities:
  Agencies have a responsibility to ensure that their workers receive equal treatment after the 12-week period and to provide the hirer with information about relevant terms and conditions.

We were Private Limited Companies so those rules dit not apply. we could not work directly for Network Rail as Contractors so we had to go through an Agency but we were not Agency workers in the sense you mean, where that would have applied was where an Agency won a Contact to supply workers to carry out certain works for a Company that won a Contract to carry out drainage works on a stretch of rail, the Company that won the Contract would only have essential staff directly employed and would hire a large portion of the site workforce through an Agency who would be paid through the Agency for six moths for example and would be on a six month Contract,

Those Agency workers would not have their own Limited Company so the Agency would be responsible for paying them and ensuring that they were they understood the rules they were working under site, Network Rail and the Company they were working for would ensure that all the safety Regulations were in place in the work zone

 

[brb]

We were Private Limited Companies so those rules dit not apply. we could not work directly for Network Rail as Contractors so we had to go through an Agency but we were not Agency workers in the sense you mean, where that would have applied was where an Agency won a Contact to supply workers to carry out certain works for a Company that won a Contract to carry out drainage works on a stretch of rail, the Company that won the Contract would only have essential staff directly employed and would hire a large portion of the site workforce through an Agency who would be paid through the Agency for six moths for example and would be on a six month Contract,

Those Agency workers would not have their own Limited Company so the Agency would be responsible for paying them and ensuring that they were they understood the rules they were working under site, Network Rail and the Company they were working for would ensure that all the safety Regulations were in place in the work zone

Yes, private limited companies in the UK are obliged to follow employment law, including regulations regarding contracts of employment, and must ensure that all contractual paperwork is in line with legal standards.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Legal Obligations:
  Private limited companies, like all employers, have legal obligations under employment law, which includes ensuring that contracts of employment are fair and comply with relevant legislation.
  
• Written Statement of Particulars:
  Employers must provide employees with a written statement of employment particulars, outlining key terms of employment, on or before the first day of employment.
  
• Contractual Requirements:
  This statement should include details like job title, salary, working hours, holiday entitlement, notice periods, and other relevant information.
  
• Implied Terms:
  Even without a written contract, employment law dictates certain implied terms, such as a minimum amount of paid holiday, minimum rest breaks, and at least the National Minimum Wage.
  
• Director's Service Agreements:
  If a director is legally appointed, a director's service agreement is necessary, which is different from a regular employment contract.
  
• No Statutory Requirement for Signed Contracts:
  There is no statutory obligation to have the contract of employment or the written statement of particulars signed.
  
• Breach of Contract:
  If either party fails to fulfill their obligations under the terms of the contract, they are in breach of contract and can take legal action to remedy the situation.
  
• Contractor vs. Employee:
  It's important to distinguish between a contract of service (employment) and a contract for services (contractor) as the legal obligations and rights differ.
  
• Key Information Document (KID):
  Since April 6, 2020, all employment businesses are required to provide agency work-seekers with a key information document (KID) before agreeing the terms by which they will undertake work, including whether the worker is employed under a contract of service or apprenticeship, or a contract for services.

 

[brb]

**** off brb