Election 2024
- Thread starter brb
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The problem is there's no real agreement on why the right wing is rising. And there's plenty of disinformation from all sides to claim they know why. As well as many using it to peddle their own agenda particularly in the media and fringe parties.
The way this usually ends up is they do get into power, carry out madcap and dangerous lunacy often aimed against the poor and foreigners, and once everything goes down the toilet and there's been sufficient bloodletting the world comes to its senses and we regain some normality. I half expect this is what will happen and there's no avoiding letting it run its course. Heaven help us in the meantime.
No, but I have two theories.
1) Knee jerk reaction against change and society becoming more progressive and inclusive. Those who don't like being progressive and more inclusive are fighting back.
2) People who belong to the above join internet echo-chambers and enough of those places are anonymous that they can espouse "offensive" ideology because they don't have to worry about repercussion... other people see those ideas repeated and if they agree with them... put that in an echo chamber and radical ideas can become mainstream.
People get desensitized to radical ideas as a defence mechanism when they're attacked for being radical.
I posted the Ted Talk on here once about the guy who started the fake "conspiracy theory", "Birds Arn't Real". Basically researchers pretended to be part of a conspiracy theory that said that the birds in America were all spy drones after all real birds had been wiped out by DDT decades ago. It was a fake conspiracy in that, the people running it were doing it as a social experiment to watch what would happen if they went around and tried to start a fake conspiracy.
The one thing that I found most interesting from it (and made me think of Aber and all the times he was called crazy), is that the researchers found that the more people called them crazy, the more they found themselves WANTING to defend themselves and found themselves hostile to the people criticising them. (even though they even knew themselves that their fake conspiracy theory was nuts, being told that they were crazy made them WANT to believe it more).
The conclusion they found was- if you call someone crazy, they're going to double-down and defend their beliefs (even if they question those beliefs themselves).
So when someone says "deport everyone to Rwanda" and someone tells them that's a crazy or racist idea, psychologically what that's doing is actually pushing them further to the right. Supposedly the correct thing to do if you disagree with someone is explain rationally why its a bad idea rather than calling them crazy and insulting them... however, the internet exists, so that doesn't happen!
The echo chambers and hostility people take online to each other is almost certainly causing a lot of the moves to the extremes.
No, but I have two theories.
1) Knee jerk reaction against change and society becoming more progressive and inclusive. Those who don't like being progressive and more inclusive are fighting back.
2) People who belong to the above join internet echo-chambers and enough of those places are anonymous that they can espouse "offensive" ideology because they don't have to worry about repercussion... other people see those ideas repeated and if they agree with them... put that in an echo chamber and radical ideas can become mainstream.
People get desensitized to radical ideas as a defence mechanism when they're attacked for being radical.
I posted the Ted Talk on here once about the guy who started the fake "conspiracy theory", "Birds Arn't Real". Basically researchers pretended to be part of a conspiracy theory that said that the birds in America were all spy drones after all real birds had been wiped out by DDT decades ago. It was a fake conspiracy in that, the people running it were doing it as a social experiment to watch what would happen if they went around and tried to start a fake conspiracy.
The one thing that I found most interesting from it (and made me think of Aber and all the times he was called crazy), is that the researchers found that the more people called them crazy, the more they found themselves WANTING to defend themselves and found themselves hostile to the people criticising them. (even though they even knew themselves that their fake conspiracy theory was nuts, being told that they were crazy made them WANT to believe it more).
The conclusion they found was- if you call someone crazy, they're going to double-down and defend their beliefs (even if they question those beliefs themselves).
So when someone says "deport everyone to Rwanda" and someone tells them that's a crazy or racist idea, psychologically what that's doing is actually pushing them further to the right. Supposedly the correct thing to do if you disagree with someone is explain rationally why its a bad idea rather than calling them crazy and insulting them... however, the internet exists, so that doesn't happen!
The echo chambers and hostility people take online to each other is almost certainly causing a lot of the moves to the extremes.
That's a big part of it but it's not one thing at the exclusion of another. So for example what Archer posted earlier about the situation in France where the left wing parties are fighting against each other - couple this with the fact you have Macron who is centre right on paper with some policies to match but also pushed so much which is socialist/left of centre, and ppl on both sides feel ignored, and you leave a vacuum for the far right to come in and be the ONLY option many ppl feel they have.
Add to that populism, the libertarians, the disproportionate influence of right wing media, a lack of any robust scrutiny of the extremists on the right as well as all sorts of other ****e and that's how the far right popularity rises.
I also wonder how much we've just forgotten about the 1930's and 1940's now? Not only were most people alive now now alive then... but most people alive now didn't even have parents alive in that timeframe.
Its not just history- it ancient history now!
It's so much easier to blame someone else for your faults, and to have a scapegoat than it is to accept that society is flawed and we need to work together. Society as a whole has forgotten what happens when you start blaming everything on various groups. Even the ancient Romans lost the republic because of populism... maybe the evils of populism is something that can't ever be shaken off... you have to live through the horrors of nationalism and populism before you can have a period of sanity. Society doomed to rinse and repeat forever.
Its not just history- it ancient history now!
It's so much easier to blame someone else for your faults, and to have a scapegoat than it is to accept that society is flawed and we need to work together. Society as a whole has forgotten what happens when you start blaming everything on various groups. Even the ancient Romans lost the republic because of populism... maybe the evils of populism is something that can't ever be shaken off... you have to live through the horrors of nationalism and populism before you can have a period of sanity. Society doomed to rinse and repeat forever.
That too, but in the UK it's come about because the Tories drifted so far to the right that we actually had a British Prime Minister talking from a Lectern that said 'Stop the Boats', which for me was an indication of how disproportionate that issue had become to dominate the mainstream agenda.
Yet, you had people in the right of the party that were saying it doesn't go far enough, and it then gives rise to opportunists like Farage to jump on and give a platform for actual racists and fascists.
He doesn't have any workable solutions, but a popularist message is always going to gain traction with people who are frustrated with NHS waiting times, lack of housing, inability to get GP appts etc when you can point the finger at foreigners, instead of looking at the lack of investment and jobs cuts that have been enacted by our own Govt
That would be such a whopping majority for Labour.
I hope it happens, this country needs dragging out of the gutter from the utter ****e that's been served up by the Tories
I'm of a different opinion.... I think that big a majority would be a disaster.
Don't get me wrong... The Tories need to be removed and I will have a big laugh if they get cut down to size... but it's never good when any party has such a big lead. It takes away the need for compromise and allows crazy ideas to make it through to law.
I'm up for some crazy left wing ideas
To be honest. I don't think Starmer is the type to be that radical. I actually think his big majority will be an asset to the country as he'll be able to get decent policies through Parliament without the Tories simply trying to scupper them because it's Labour.
I'm up for some crazy left wing ideas
To be honest. I don't think Starmer is the type to be that radical. I actually think his big majority will be an asset to the country as he'll be able to get decent policies through Parliament without the Tories simply trying to scupper them because it's Labour.
He's there to win the election, until he's removed by his own.
Would be funny if they replaced him with Corbyn on Friday morning.
It's what every single MRP is going for, looks to be in line with the polls which have barely budged for Labour.
I'm actually being kinder than most the MRPs are in regards to the Tories, but I do think they will hang onto triple digits.
I'm probably doing what every single Lib Dem doesn't want me to do and building up expectations, but Ed Davey said yesterday they have expanded their key targets limit, so he's clearly confident.
Reform I think are obviously going to win Clacton, have an extremely good chance in Boston and I have a sneaky feeling that Lee Anderson can hang on in Ashfield.
Your boys/girls the Greens have Sian Berry running in Brighton Pavilion, it's been safe Green for years so they have that, I think Carla Denyer might low key struggle in Bristol Central. I didn't even know this but a recent YouGov poll stated 54% of Green voters did not recognise a picture of Denyer.
But Andrew Ramsay is running in Waveney Valley so he might get that seat.
I probably know less about him than most people on here being overseas... but he doesn't strike me as a radical either. He seems pretty moderate.
I wonder what will happen though in a large-majority parliament when he has so many MPs to hold together from all across the centre-to the left and they all want their different ideologies represented.
If he wasn't centrist I wouldn't have voted for him. Don't care what they do once in, fook it up and Farage will get my vote next time. If they want to play at being stupid ****tes, then I'll vote like one, same as I did over Brexit.
Up to now, just followed the random stories on my news feed, but pulled up the side by side manifesto comparisons to see... Have to say- absolutely agree. TO me it looks Conservative right wing, Labour centrist, Lib Dem left wing.
Then there is Reform which seems to promise all the bells and whistles of a socialist government an enlarged army, NHS instantly boosted, all while not paying any taxes for any of it, and keeping cheap foreign workers out too.
It's hard to even call them right wing- they're just unrealistic and have no clue.