Eid Mubarak

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Archers Road said:
Whether you believe The Bible contains revelations from God - irrespective of the title of the last book of the canon - depends on what sort of God, if any, you believe in. If certain divine mysteries have been revealed to people over the centuries, these revelations have been recorded not by God but by fallible man, who by his very nature is incapable of grasping more than fragment of the divine plan (See God's answer to Job).
Click to expand...
That's rather a big if though, don't you think? I think that's the point.
Job's not a great example for me, either. A bet with the personification of evil to completely **** up a nice bloke? Yeah, that's great...
Archers Road said:
Either way, seeking to invalidate 3000 years of accumulated literature, wisdom and culture because some of it doesn't make sense is a pretty ignorant thing to do.
Click to expand...
Why is it ignorant? The literature stands on it's own, regardless of it's veracity.
The cultural aspect is also useful, so why shouldn't the supposed wisdom be up for debate?
Archers Road said:
Who claims to believe every word? No one sane and no one who is taken seriously I wouldn't have thought.
Click to expand...
Some fundamentalists do claim that. They're obviously fruitcakes, but there's no telling some people.
I don't think that it's something that anyone on this side of the pond would claim, to be honest.
 
Just to throw up an example of self-professed Biblical literalists:
You must log in or register to see images

28% of Americans claim to be. I suspect that a lot of them don't, though.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
That's rather a big if though, don't you think? I think that's the point.
Job's not a great example for me, either. A bet with the personification of evil to completely **** up a nice bloke? Yeah, that's great...

Why is it ignorant? The literature stands on it's own, regardless of it's veracity.
The cultural aspect is also useful, so why shouldn't the supposed wisdom be up for debate?

Some fundamentalists do claim that. They're obviously fruitcakes, but there's no telling some people.
I don't think that it's something that anyone on this side of the pond would claim, to be honest.
Click to expand...


I think you've (probably deliberately) missed the point of Job. It's an attempt to answer the timeless problem of why, if there is a God, does he allow bad things to happen to good people? In the end there is no answer; or rather, there is an answer, in the form of an unanswerable question. The book (it's a novel, only an idiot would attempt to take it literally) end's with God's question to Job, "Were you there when I laid the foundations of the earth?"
 
Archers Road said:
I think you've (probably deliberately) missed the point of Job. It's an attempt to answer the timeless problem of why, if there is a God, does he allow bad things to happen to good people? In the end there is no answer; or rather, there is an answer, in the form of an unanswerable question. The book (it's a novel, only an idiot would attempt to take it literally) end's with God's question to Job, "Where you there when I laid the foundations of the earth?"
Click to expand...
And it's a terrible answer. It's a dictator's decree, not that of a loving and benevolent deity.
If you wreck someone's life, kill their family, inflict a terrible disease upon them and do it all to prove a point, then what does that make you?
It doesn't answer the Problem of Evil, it merely tells followers to accept things and shut up.
Might makes right and God moves in mysterious ways, so don't use the brain that you've been given and don't question authority.

The actual ending is even worse, as Job is showered with fortune and blessed by the lord.
His family is replaced, as is his wealth, in a clumsy afterlife metaphor.
God will reward you if you don't ask any difficult questions.
Archers Road said:
Yeah, but Yanks though. I'm guessing most of those 28% haven't actually read much if any of the Bible.
Click to expand...
I agree. They definitely do exist though, as do those that believe equally fantastic stories, I'm afraid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smirnoffpriest
PleaseNotPoll said:
And it's a terrible answer. It's a dictator's decree, not that of a loving and benevolent deity.
If you wreck someone's life, kill their family, inflict a terrible disease upon them and do it all to prove a point, then what does that make you?
It doesn't answer the Problem of Evil, it merely tells followers to accept things and shut up.
Might makes right and God moves in mysterious ways, so don't use the brain that you've been given and don't question authority.

The actual ending is even worse, as Job is showered with fortune and blessed by the lord.
His family is replaced, as is his wealth, in a clumsy afterlife metaphor.
God will reward you if you don't ask any difficult questions.

I agree. They definitely do exist though, as do those that believe equally fantastic stories, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...


Might be a terrible answer, but it's the only one you're ever going to get. Life is cruel, everyone suffers, no one knows why; you'll suffer less if you can accept it as God's will, continue to have faith and try to lead a good life. And in the end, the wheel of fortune might just turn again, in your favour.

Are you always this literal minded btw? It's a ****ing story.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spurlock
Archers Road said:
Might be a terrible answer, but it's the only one you're ever going to get. Life is cruel, everyone suffers, no one knows why; you'll suffer less if you can accept it as God's will, continue to have faith and try to lead a good life. And in the end, the wheel of fortune might just turn again, in your favour.
Click to expand...
Or it's that way because there is no God. Or there are multiple Gods and they have competing agendas.
Either of those makes more sense than a benevolent God that treats people poorly for no apparent reason.
I think that the Lottery's taken the whole "It Could Be You" thing, by the way.

Suffering isn't a good thing, as Mother Theresa suggested, until it was her own.
Being able to suffer without being dragged down by it is.
 
I hear about and see good people suffering and it makes me sad. Equally I hear about and see unpleasant people prospering and it makes me angry. Over the past few years I've come to believe that either there is no god or that if there is a god then its not for me as I can't process the logic behind its methods.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
The 10 Commandments are open to interpretation, too.
Though shalt not kill? Murder's probably a better translation, especially as there are a bunch of other commands to kill people.
I read somewhere that they're essentially chapter headings. Makes more sense that way, actually.
Click to expand...
how is 'you shalt not kill' open to interpretation? pretty unambiguous. The 10 commandments are mans covenant with God, which can be boiled down to "I'm God, I'm the only one to be revered, and don't do anything that will piss off or harm others". All three Abrahamic religions are based on that prinicple, the rest of the books are people adding to it reasons why you can ignore it, primarily based on the writers predilections.
Personally I find all their religious texts to be blasphemous, as I can't see a supreme entity being a jealous, bigoted, racist and an illogical moron.
 
Archers Road said:
Might be a terrible answer, but it's the only one you're ever going to get. Life is cruel, everyone suffers, no one knows why; you'll suffer less if you can accept it as God's will, continue to have faith and try to lead a good life. And in the end, the wheel of fortune might just turn again, in your favour.

Are you always this literal minded btw? It's a ****ing story.
Click to expand...

As David says in Heller's book, God Knows, "Why me, God? God replies, "Why Not you?"
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Spurlock and Archers Road
Big Ern said:
how is 'you shalt not kill' open to interpretation? pretty unambiguous. The 10 commandments are mans covenant with God, which can be boiled down to "I'm God, I'm the only one to be revered, and don't do anything that will piss off or harm others". All three Abrahamic religions are based on that prinicple, the rest of the books are people adding to it reasons why you can ignore it, primarily based on the writers predilections.
Personally I find all their religious texts to be blasphemous, as I can't see a supreme entity being a jealous, bigoted, racist and an illogical moron.
Click to expand...
Jealous, bigoted, racist and illogical...how did you come to that conclusion especially the racist bit?
 
The main point is though whether you believe this life to be all there is to it with no repercussions for your actions or not.

The in terms of muslims and other faiths this life is temporary, good and bad is from God and it's a matter of how you deal with the good and bad things and situations. Does losing faith make it any better i doubt it very much, we accept the fact that life is but a test of your free will and what you do with it, the message is there for people to accept or deny.

Do we think we will live forever no, does how one die change perception of the dead person or the perception of the people around them why because life isn't a permanent state but death is permanent state from the earth.

Sometimes people think and believe an evil person has died living the high life and got away with it but no he is accountable for his deeds here and that accountability is a permanent for all the good and bad people do to others and themselves.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Good luck with those. <ok>
Click to expand...
highburyal said:
The main point is though whether you believe this life to be all there is to it with no repercussions for your actions or not.

The in terms of muslims and other faiths this life is temporary, good and bad is from God and it's a matter of how you deal with the good and bad things and situations. Does losing faith make it any better i doubt it very much, we accept the fact that life is but a test of your free will and what you do with it, the message is there for people to accept or deny.

Do we think we will live forever no, does how one die change perception of the dead person or the perception of the people around them why because life isn't a permanent state but death is permanent state from the earth.

Sometimes people think and believe an evil person has died living the high life and got away with it but no he is accountable for his deeds here and that accountability is a permanent for all the good and bad people do to others and themselves.
Click to expand...

So will the people carrying out suicide bombings or beheadings go to heaven or hell?
 
highburyal said:
I dont get to decide who goes to heaven or hell but islam is clear that suicide in any form is forbidden and killing innocent people is forbidden and goes against the core beliefs of islam.
Click to expand...

Al, if you say the Koran is clear on this, how do these ****ers manage to distort what they do into being what Allah wants?
 
highburyal said:
I dont get to decide who goes to heaven or hell but islam is clear that suicide in any form is forbidden and killing innocent people is forbidden and goes against the core beliefs of islam.
Click to expand...

Given the reaction to the likes of Charlie Ebdo and Salman Rushdie, it's surprising there isn't a huge backlash to this apparent corruption of the words.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Al, if you say the Koran is clear on this, how do these ****ers manage to distort what they do into being what Allah wants?
Click to expand...
Dont forget lot of their supporters are young and vulnerable people also those with strong hatred for west for the things that has been done to them in the middle east. We in the UK weren't a target until we started doing what USA wanted and followed them blindly regardless whether it was right or wrong for us.

The people with hatered dont care for reasoning or what is right or wrong be it muslims or non-Muslims, they will try and justify using any reasons they can think of for their actions and thats why you will find muslims dont support those people or those puppet regimes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back