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Off Topic Egoist or Altruist?

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by sb_73, Oct 20, 2017.

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Egoist or Altruist?

  1. Egoist

    11 vote(s)
    78.6%
  2. Altruist

    3 vote(s)
    21.4%
  1. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Some f these scenarios are simply impossible to answer.

    My "instinct" will always be to protect/try to save my nearest and dearest. I wouldn't get into a vehicle that could "decide" to sacrifice my loved ones for others. To answer your question, I would want the choice of setting the car one way or another and I'd always choose egoist if there were loved ones with me. On my own, I'd like to think I'd choose altruism, but, unlike some on here, I don't consider myself to be on a higher moral plain and therefore I'd possibly end up being selfish.
     
    #21
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  2. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    No. Your family would be in danger because you would choose to drive them into a wall.
     
    #22
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  3. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    A similar dilemma is faced by those in charge of military drone attacks. Do they take out a target who is going to plan for and be involved in a future terrorist attack that could kill many people, even though the drone strike may hurt innocent people? I wouldn't want that job!
     
    #23
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  4. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but as Strolls spits out bits of mortar and windshield and draws his last breath he will slip into the darkness comforted by the knowledge that he made the ‘right’ choice and his demise was down to selfish Tory ****s, ie anybody with an opinion that differs to his. :)
     
    #24
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  5. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Those people have been selected and have selected themselves to make precisely those decisions. It’s comparable but a slightly different scenario. Likewise I would not choose to be in their shoes, they must have a degree of certainty which I would struggle to achieve. Though I could imagine myself pressing the button, or whatever they do, in the right circumstances.
     
    #25
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  6. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    The scenarios do call into question whether it’s worth questioning ourselves about them, when your reactions in the real world are the only ones that count. But they are fun to play with, I didn’t want to start an argument or raise bad feeling.

    There are no wrong or wrong answers Col, in my view it isn’t about moral superiority, selfishness or whatever.

    I’m increasingly thinking that our biology tells us to protect our offspring (genetic inheritance) first, ourselves (our own genes) second, the groups which we identify with (friends, countrymen, followers of the same faith or ideology etc, the ones we have some kind of social contract with) third, and the species (gene pool) last.
     
    #26
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  7. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Why does altruism make you so angry, Col?
     
    #27
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  8. KooPeeArr

    KooPeeArr Well-Known Member

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    If altruism was chosen for either an endorphine rush or for moral superiority then it would be an egotistical choice.

    I don't think there'd be any more or less self satisfaction in knowing you were protecting your loved ones if that is something you hold dear.

    I don't have or want children and my close family is all 39 or over so while I love my nearest and dearest as much as anyone, I don't have a daily thought of needing to protect them working into my psyche due to not having direct control over it and their independence.

    The reality of both scenarios would be riddled with guilt.

    I think as much interest can be drawn from the vague wording of the original question. I read it as being the average injury to everyone is minimised by the altruistic mode whereas personal and passenger injury is reduced by no consideration of others' safety in the other mode. This made it easy for me.

    I think others read the question as passengers gravely injured or die or other people die or are gravely injured.

    Both correct interpretations with slightly different emphasis and lead more (but not certainly) towards different answers.
     
    #28
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  9. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Col?

    Altruism doesn’t make me angry in the slightest, Strolls. It’s a very commendable trait. The sniffy superiority of some that consider another honest option selfish is what makes me mildly miffed.
     
    #29
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  10. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Both interpretations end in the same place though, I think. Should you always choose the course which maximises the good (or minimises the harm) to the maximum umber of people? Utilitarianism 101.
     
    #30

  11. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Hell, I love you all.
     
    #31
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  12. KooPeeArr

    KooPeeArr Well-Known Member

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    If that was the case, you could have just asked that. The question would then have sparked different scenarios whereas the situation you gave leaves a lot of questions (or a gap) on what the computer determined "best outcome" is and what factors are used to determine this (or for that matter the worst one).

    It's the uncertainty over the technological evaluations of outcomes and the example that removes as much objectivity as possible that makes this an interesting thread for me.
     
    #32
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  13. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I was posing a real life question, it was on the wireless this morning. I choose to interpret it as a question of utilitarian ethics, you don’t have to.
     
    #33
  14. KooPeeArr

    KooPeeArr Well-Known Member

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    Apologies if everyone read it with a uniform interpretation except me. I'll leave you all to it.
     
    #34
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  15. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Let a thousand flowers bloom.

    The only thing that disappoints me about this thread is that no one has picked up on the Lemmy lyric I inserted in an earlier post.

    These questions make us uncomfortable, and no one is obliged to subject themselves to discomfort. No judgements made (which is unusual for me, because ****ing hell I’m judgemental).
     
    #35
  16. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Love you too, Ubes.
    :emoticon-0109-kiss:
     
    #36
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  17. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    The moral superiority comment wasn't aimed at you and I'm not trying to make it an argument mate. It's a fascinating observation of our species.
     
    #37
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  18. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    ???

    You quoted Ubes and then asked me the question...................what's more, Stan liked it. You both must be losing it!!
     
    #38
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  19. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I’m liking everything on this thread Col. I’m a tart. Plus I like discussions where there is no right and wrong, only debate.
     
    #39
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  20. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    What, instead of a bus queue, the choice was between a wall and the queue for the Conservative Party conference?:)
     
    #40
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