Britain will be subject to the rulings of European courts after Brexit, the government has conceded, in an apparent climbdown from its promise of judicial independence. In the latest in a series of policy papers that seek to blur the edges of hard Brexit, the government argues that for the smooth settlement of cross-border disputes it is necessary that foreign judgments sometimes apply to individuals and businesses in the UK. Looks as if the deep and special red line is now a fading pink.
The European Free Trade Association Court is very different from the European Court of Justice which was, and is in my mind, a solid red line.
Disputes between individuals are not settled by that court, so no idea why you mention it. As everyone agrees the existing system is working very well, so to tinker with it on ideological grounds makes no sense.
The UK is leaving the EU due to the result of the referendum. The UK government, quite rightly, does not want to be under the ECJ so it needs to find a more independent body to oversee disputes. The most senior EU has even proposed the UK using a EFTA style as an alternative. The EFTA Court is used by non EU countries with access to the single market instead of using the ECJ for disputes.
Sorry I should read back before I post. I meant the EU's most senior judge has suggested an alternative arbitration body to the ECJ for the UK post Brexit.
These are for trade disputes and the existing system is far wider. Whatever it still means that you get rid of one set of European judges to replace them with a different set of European judges. This clearly is not what was being sold at the time of the referendum.
This is the problem with this BREXIT....... no clear delineation of the frame of reference anywhere..... in no other aspect of our democracy would the Govt be allowed to have a mandate to change all its international partnerships without each and every one being debated fully in Parliament.
It was clear during the referendum that for the UK to be sovereign it must ditch the ECJ. This should remain a red line. To trade with European countries it is acceptable to find an arbitrator for disputes if an agreement can be found outside of the WTO scheme. This is entirely different to the EU calling the shots through the ECJ. David Davis has said he would consider setting up a new arbitration body that would include European officials, but was adamant that it would not mean the ECJ itself continued to have a role. Seems quite clear to me.
Problem with Brexit or the government? People keep blaming Brexit but it was in the Conservative manifesto and duly delivered by Cameron who then did a runner when he didn't get the vote he wanted. Why the hell would a government manifesto then not have a foundation of change ready behind it? That's like building the high speed link but having no trains to run on it. The remainers like to blame some unknown body called Brexit, no the public voted in a democratic society and the outcome was Brexit which was NOT followed up by the Prime Minister of the day Cameron, who's party was previously elected in the knowledge of that manifesto. No clear difinition is not the fault of Brexit but the party that delivered it. But that's the history of politics, that people have always accepted leavers and remainers everything at any poll is built on a foundation of lies, much like Labour or any other party....much like this thread, round and round.
Problem with how the Govt is managing Brexit.... IMO if we as a nation are going to make this work Brexit should be overseen by Parliament as a whole not just a minority Govt. Even then I know that is wishy washy idealism that will never happen................
The value of sterling appears to be dropping against the Australian dollar. Yesterday and last Monday I had cause to transfer the same amount - £500 - from Oz to here. Last week that was a dollar value of $887 - my bank told me this morning that yesterday's transfer was a value of £810. A drop of approximately 9%, which seems rather large. Thankfully, I'm not transferring money the opposite way...
Just had a look at the currencies pages and the value of the £ is down against every single other one around the entire world.
But we all know that if it was over seen by Parliament as a whole, there would be politicians that would make it drag on forever, yes even more than currently. No party is ever going to be in agreement with another party about the best way forward. As far has i'm concerned I exercised my democratic right, all i want to see now is continued movement towards Brexit. If they want to oversee it in parliament as a whole then get on with it, although we know that will not happen, every party is in it for themselves, I'm not interested in any of them, I just want to see the voters decision exercised. As for what I want to see, it's too complex and fraught with arguments, so i'll tell you when we get there if i'm happy. I've spoken to several of my friends who were hard Brexit, I asked a question: If you could cast your vote again what would you do, there reply exactly the same as mine, they would be even STRONGER towards voting for Brexit, they even believe that due to the dragging of feet, the undermining of the Brexit vote, that more people would come on board and vote Brexit, why?...well the likes of Cameron were complacent last time and we believe people are becoming complacent about our wishes again. You can argue, people can berate our vote, our intelligence but the more you put us in the corner the more we will come out fighting. No one ever said it was going to be a smooth ride, far from it, I personally said there would be hardships, but hardships teach you the values of life and that some things are worth more than material wealth. As for jobs, they were stolen from us, let's blame lazy Brits, well they were not lazy for decades, it was a family thing to go and work in the fields, so what changed, we allowed migrants to steal our jobs that's what changed, blame greedy or desperate farmers, blame policies of the day, blame what you like, but to keep saying we are lazy is an insult to our nation. So now we want our Nation back, and if Brits are lazy we will deal with our own and government benefit policies will make these people work again. Yeah I know i'm a crackpot, but i refuse to be politically correct to fit the myths of insulting our Country and our people.
No jobs were ever stolen... speak to East Anglian farmers, NHS recruiters, Retailers, packing factories. There was a TV programme a year back about fruit and veg pickers in the fields and they showed a team of UK and European workers and in a week all the UK workers had dropped out. Too hard.... much easier to draw the dole. We NEED immigrant workers.... and we still will after Brexit. I see little gain and much to lose with Brexit... it is all about perception IMO and i think people have been hoodwinked by manipulating media and power players. We are in danger of becoming a tin pot nation with outdated values... in my opinion.
That's your view the same as I have mine. But I do read the leaves argument because it's about balanced debate, but I don't see that balanced debate in the opposite direction. Who was hoodwinked, another myth, I wasn't, I've stated time again the reasoning behind why I wasn't. Ok others may have been, but what's new in politics. So we are going to become a tin pot nation, really, as for outdated values, that is always been my argument, your so called outdated values are my culture which I refuse in my lifetime to be eroded.
My culture included going to a football match at 3.00 pm on a Saturday afternoon, handing over a few coins to gain entry, leaving the ground to walk up Market Street, and by the time I reached the corner with the High Street the paper seller would be there with all of the days football results in the stop press. Today I have to search to see what day of the week we are playing and at what time. Pre-book a ticket if I am lucky enough to get one. Spend ages getting my car out of a car park, and listen to an instant service of results of games that were played that day, and incomplete league tables. I remember the days of the past with pleasure, but accept that they have gone, the world of football is different. Certainly when I do get to a game I see that the ground now has toilets and there is not a line of people having a half time pee through a fence. I see a much faster game with a higher level of skill, if not always as exciting. I can also watch replays at home for that instant that I was not exactly sure of what did happen. The culture that I grew up with in this respect has gone. I could go on with ease about how much more enjoyable life was in those days, but I will never cling to it and say we should return to it, because I know that it cannot return. I have just picked on one small aspect I know, but for many others you could make a similar case. I embrace change, I wouldn't live where I do otherwise. I am using a computer to write this made on the otherside of the world. I can watch TV via a satellite with news and happenings from around the whole world. I can choose to travel to places that were beyond the pocket of most in those olden days. I would prefer to see this change used for good, not to just line the pockets of those who maybe are well provided for already. How you can bring about this political change though can be an endless discussion.
My outdated values include respect for others collaboration Unity not division Helping the underdog Education and health care for all Prizing the aged and infirm a green and pleasant land the richness of culture and diversity etc I fear in this modern democracy we are losing much of the above
