EDL...again

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WWOCB

WWOCB

Active Member
May 3, 2011
1,701
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38
So I see the English Defence League were out again prior to the Reading match handing out flyers. Surely something can be done to prevent this? I'm sure it could be viewed as 'inciting racial prejudices' or something of a similar effect, although I'm sure there's some sort of technicality allowing them to do what they do. I'm all for freedom of expression and what-not but these racist buffoons are simply tarnishing the family-friendly, civil reputation of our great football club.
 
Where were they handing the flyers out?

If it's near the Valley on match day, the club (through the police) should be able to prevent this sort of thing. My opinion would be the same if it was the Tories or Labour or the Monster Raving Loony Party handing out flyers. Politics has no place in football.
 
Very sad to hear that these vermin are peddling their false patriotism and thinly disguised racism near a club with such a fine record of community relations.

Agreed, Irish - the club and the police should be getting their heads together to prevent this.

Enforcing the Highways Act should do it.
 
I had a dream last night, don't really remember it apart from screaming what are you the EDL at an audience (at some sort of unrelated gig) and the majority screaming back yes and me being thoroughly shut up.
 
I don't understand everyone's objection to democracy in it's purest form here. Whilst no supporter of the EDL I think it shows that freedom of speech (not expression) is alive and well and those that chose to codemn others for their political views are in fact the ignorant ones. If you start banning the handing out of leaflets which in itself not illegal or an offence under the highways act without reading the literature, are you not acting undemocratically?

We all can't be guardian reading liberals and I applaud anyone with a view even if it is nonsense. It's the people that think they have the right to censor that view through ignorance and fear that I can't stand.
 
Typical, would you feel the same if you were living in a largely muslim community and seen people handing out flyers saying 'bomb the british'? I'm a big fan of freedom of speech but believe that inciting racial prejudices through such speech is an abuse of the law.
 
IA said:
Where were they handing the flyers out?

If it's near the Valley on match day, the club (through the police) should be able to prevent this sort of thing. My opinion would be the same if it was the Tories or Labour or the Monster Raving Loony Party handing out flyers. Politics has no place in football.
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I agree, and politics has no place on a Charlton Athletic forum.
 
WWOCB
I am another who believes that so long as they are not inciting racial hatred or otherwise breaking the law that people should have a right to argue their case. I am a bleeding heart liberal who was once attacked for my views on Shooters Hill (during an election) by the EDL's forerunner the NF. In my student days fought against the intolerance that was propounded by the right wing. However, if all they are doing is handing out leaflets then so long as those leaflets are not seditious, racist or otherwise incite people to commit crimes, then like the publication of either das capital or mein kampf, there is little we can do other than educate people away from these views.

In my heart I know that they are wrong and that they wish to commit crimes against the tolerant society that we live in, but until they actually break the law there is little that we can or should do other than keep an eye on them and argue against them.

Tewks- Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 makes it an offence for anyone to leave a deposit on the highway that could endanger somebody, but it is that same clause which permits the authorities to prosecute:
"If a person plays at football or any other game on a highway to the annoyance of a user of the highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine"
which can effectively prevent kids playing football in even quiet cul de sacs. We should all be careful what we wish for!
 
WeWantOurCharltonBack said:
Typical, would you feel the same if you were living in a largely muslim community and seen people handing out flyers saying 'bomb the british'? I'm a big fan of freedom of speech but believe that inciting racial prejudices through such speech is an abuse of the law.
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Lets get this right. I am merely suggesting that by opposing a civil and democratic right of another is undemocratic, ignorant and pissypanty. Why the post had to be put up at all is what i find offensive. To evert a political view on a Charlton forum is patently wrong and needs balance. Why you need to give an example against a religion is an example of that fear and ignorance. I lived in many muslim communties and loved it. Unless you have read that leaflet which was supposedly handed out, you cannot comment on its content and are talking though ignorance and predjudice.

I have accidently attended a EDL meeting and met a few rabbis and a number of different cultures. i found them to be potty but at least they thought they knew why they had an opinion.
 
My comment has nothing to do with my 'ignorance', I used the example of a muslim community because its something which is feared by a lot of people, and the various religious conflicts with which we cannot go an hour a day without hearing about, show the dangerous nature of inciting racial prejudices, whether that be religious or simple bigotry.

I didn't post it to get a thread started about politics, re-read the original post and you will see I posed the question as to whether anything can be done about this. Not because I dislike the EDL (which I do) but because they are tarnishing the reputation of our club. You seem to think they're doing no harm handing out their flyers, well I pose to you the following two scenarios:

1) People living on Floyd Road (or any other surrounding road) see their street littered with flyers every Saturday (or Tuesday) promoting a racist organisation. They note that it appears every time Charlton Athletic play this seems to happen. They assume Charlton have a large racist following.

2) A black (or asian, american, european etc) family attend their first ever game at the Valley, they're handed a flyer and upon close inspection, notice its from a racist group. They then associate said racist group with Charlton Athletic, they tell their friends and family, we lose a large number of potential supporters.
 
I was given one of these flyers yesterday after trying to reject it before i knew what it was but anyway the flyer reads -

The English Defence League Peacefully Protesting in Tower Hamlets

Say no to Sharia Law

Say no to Islamic Extremism

September 3rd 2011

Think this is due to what happened in east london i think? when the islamic community put up posters saying you are now entering a sharia law controlled zone which if they want then they should go back to their own country as this is not a country of islam.

As for the EDL i believe that the what the organisation itself stands for isn't racist its just all the people in it are racist and I have no time for racism at all!
 
WeWantOurCharltonBack said:
My comment has nothing to do with my 'ignorance', I used the example of a muslim community because its something which is feared by a lot of people, and the various religious conflicts with which we cannot go an hour a day without hearing about, show the dangerous nature of inciting racial prejudices, whether that be religious or simple bigotry.

I didn't post it to get a thread started about politics, re-read the original post and you will see I posed the question as to whether anything can be done about this. Not because I dislike the EDL (which I do) but because they are tarnishing the reputation of our club. You seem to think they're doing no harm handing out their flyers, well I pose to you the following two scenarios:

1) People living on Floyd Road (or any other surrounding road) see their street littered with flyers every Saturday (or Tuesday) promoting a racist organisation. They note that it appears every time Charlton Athletic play this seems to happen. They assume Charlton have a large racist following.

2) A black (or asian, american, european etc) family attend their first ever game at the Valley, they're handed a flyer and upon close inspection, notice its from a racist group. They then associate said racist group with Charlton Athletic, they tell their friends and family, we lose a large number of potential supporters.
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I think your again are missing your own point. You objected to a throughly legal and legitimate party canvassing votes in a way that you did not witness nor did you even bother to understand. You posted on this site- as a charlton supporter to try and get support for your own political view univited. That is exactly what the EDL did and you criticise them? Your logic need examination particularly when you then insult an entire religion by making a rather curious example of racial hatred which when examined is very insulting to that religion and its people and does suggest you are very ignorant and have an irrational fear of things that you do not understand.

As far as you two examples of damaging relationships with new supporters is concerned.

1. CAFC already have a large far right following and have a website to prove it.
2. Are you assuming that all people cannot make up their own minds? Surely other cultures can read a leaflet (which you did not) and make up their own minds?
3. People in Floyd Road will probably already know what sort of fan attends the ground. I also think some get free tickets but cannot confirm this.
4. Has their ever been racial hatred in the Valley? No.
 
Thoroughly legal and legitimate party - just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right. Pretty sure up until recently there was a law in which you could kill a welshman after midnight with a shotgun (or some such silly law), doesn't make it right. They're a racist organisation, as far as I'm concerned racism is wrong, regardless of whether its illegal or not.

My posting on this site is in no way similar to handing out flyers, the title of this thread is 'EDL again', if anybody didn't want to read about the EDL they wouldn't click the link, if they did click the link, they then wouldn't post, simple. Yesterday the EDL were thrusting their flyers into peoples hands, giving them very little time to make a decision as to whether they should take it or not (and with no knowledge of the content of the flyer until they read it).

My reference to muslim extremism is used by analogy to suggest the damage which racism can do, it is in no way offensive, and the fact that you think it should be construed as an offensive remark says a lot. I used the idea of muslim extremists in a muslim community as those extremists would feel their best target audience would be fellow muslims, an analogy for the EDL who believe that, as football fans are predominantly white and working class males (like the majority of themselves), this would be their ideal target audience. The fact that I use the word 'muslim' seems to offend you.

An irrational fear of things I don't understand - find me somebody who hasn't? Its one of the key features of 'human nature' that we hold an irrational fear of the unknown.

1. I've never seen a far-right Charlton website? Though to be honest I've never had the desire to search for one.

2. Where did people making their minds up come into it? I'm speaking of people being offended by a racist organisation. If people 'make their mind up' and decide their not offended, then they don't come into the equation.

3. Whether or not they 'know the sort of people coming to the Valley' by looking out their window is debatable. But surely their opinion would change if they seen a large amount of EDL flyers on their street after every game.

4. Not that I know of, and I'd like to keep it that way (hence the whole point of this thread).
 
WeWantOurCharltonBack said:
Thoroughly legal and legitimate party - just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right. Pretty sure up until recently there was a law in which you could kill a welshman after midnight with a shotgun (or some such silly law), doesn't make it right. They're a racist organisation, as far as I'm concerned racism is wrong, regardless of whether its illegal or not.

My posting on this site is in no way similar to handing out flyers, the title of this thread is 'EDL again', if anybody didn't want to read about the EDL they wouldn't click the link, if they did click the link, they then wouldn't post, simple. Yesterday the EDL were thrusting their flyers into peoples hands, giving them very little time to make a decision as to whether they should take it or not (and with no knowledge of the content of the flyer until they read it).

My reference to muslim extremism is used by analogy to suggest the damage which racism can do, it is in no way offensive, and the fact that you think it should be construed as an offensive remark says a lot. I used the idea of muslim extremists in a muslim community as those extremists would feel their best target audience would be fellow muslims, an analogy for the EDL who believe that, as football fans are predominantly white and working class males (like the majority of themselves), this would be their ideal target audience. The fact that I use the word 'muslim' seems to offend you.

An irrational fear of things I don't understand - find me somebody who hasn't? Its one of the key features of 'human nature' that we hold an irrational fear of the unknown.

1. I've never seen a far-right Charlton website? Though to be honest I've never had the desire to search for one.

2. Where did people making their minds up come into it? I'm speaking of people being offended by a racist organisation. If people 'make their mind up' and decide their not offended, then they don't come into the equation.

3. Whether or not they 'know the sort of people coming to the Valley' by looking out their window is debatable. But surely their opinion would change if they seen a large amount of EDL flyers on their street after every game.

4. Not that I know of, and I'd like to keep it that way (hence the whole point of this thread).
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I give up on you.

'Just because something is legal does not make it right' has simply floored me. I have no answer to that sort of imaginative, creative thinking and will walk away from this debate knowing that this country will never go short of viliage idiots.
 
Its a forum, meant for discussion and debate, at which point do you think that permits you to make personal insults towards me simply because I don't agree with your views?
 
WeWantOurCharltonBack said:
Its a forum, meant for discussion and debate, at which point do you think that permits you to make personal insults towards me simply because I don't agree with your views?
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Well to be honest it was when you said about shooting welshman before midnight that drew me to that conclusion-if that were true why is Ryan Giggs Still Alive?

Anyho I withdraw all references to you being an idiot and wish you a flourishing career in politics and Welsh relations.
 
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