Eclipse, 7th July
- Thread starter PNkt
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I think Sir Henry is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Whatever path connections plot for the horse, there will always be someone who thinks it is the wrong decision. I've spoken to Sir Henry's secretary on a number of occasions and you wouldn't believe the number of crack pots she gets phoning the office telling them what they should be doing with the horse! Sir Henry has probably forgotten more about training horses than any of us could ever hope to know, I for one and happy to bow to his vastly superior knowledge of horses in general and Frankel himself. The horse and his wellbeing should be paramount in every decision they make.
As an aside, Khalid Abdulla is not interested in protecting stallion reputations in the same way as Coolmore. If he wanted to keep the horse unbeaten he'd have retired him last year.
As an aside, Khalid Abdulla is not interested in protecting stallion reputations in the same way as Coolmore. If he wanted to keep the horse unbeaten he'd have retired him last year.
Henry Cecil is just a boring trainer who rarely takes any risks with his star horses.*
It's a real shame that Frankel didnt fall into the hands of a more adventurous trainer, as I'm convinced Frankel would have won the Derby last year.*
Just because he has alot of speed, it doesn't mean he doesn't have stamina. On his debut as a 2yo he won on bottomless ground over a mile, beating Nathaniel, and then in last years Guineas he showed loads of stamina to get home despite sprinting flat out the whole way. If he didn't stay further then there is no way he would have made it home with the early pace he set.*
I know you have already given me a science lesson PN, but I still feel it is a big positive for Frankels stamina, that his full brother stays 12 furlongs on soft ground, and is being touted as a potential Leger contender
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It's a real shame that Frankel didnt fall into the hands of a more adventurous trainer, as I'm convinced Frankel would have won the Derby last year.*
Just because he has alot of speed, it doesn't mean he doesn't have stamina. On his debut as a 2yo he won on bottomless ground over a mile, beating Nathaniel, and then in last years Guineas he showed loads of stamina to get home despite sprinting flat out the whole way. If he didn't stay further then there is no way he would have made it home with the early pace he set.*
I know you have already given me a science lesson PN, but I still feel it is a big positive for Frankels stamina, that his full brother stays 12 furlongs on soft ground, and is being touted as a potential Leger contender
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Sir Henry Cecil is a legend. The way he has returned to the top of the game is just unbelievable. Will never question his decision making as it would be foolish to do so.
Yes a bit hard on Henry BUT he seemed to do the same with Kris, who was kept in training as a 4yo to run over 10f but never attempted it.
I do agree with Famouswise, as my previous post after the Lockinge suggested then was the time to attempt the 10f (I was meaning the POW).
I do agree with Famouswise, as my previous post after the Lockinge suggested then was the time to attempt the 10f (I was meaning the POW).
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The campaigning of Frankel thus far this term has been for me personally one of the disappointments of the campaign. And what winning another Sussex Stakes can do for the horse is to be frank negliable. Be proactive connections and actively seek out real challenges for the horse. Challenges that if achieved would see him become a great with a capital ‘G’. I’m afraid he is in danger, if the safe option is sought for the rest of the term, of becoming the ‘Liberal Democrat’ of horse racing. And the fact that he is never going to be campaigned more than 100 miles from ‘base camp’ to me leaves a massive hole in his CV. I’m a massive fan of the horse, and as my regular readers know his trainer, but feel so much more should be being asked of the old boy.
Back to the old 2012 Eclipse and it has to be So You Think for me here in his last race prior to a few assignations with some ‘Aussie Sheila’s’. However, I think those bookie chappies have got the heat about right and I won’t be getting involved at 4/6. On official ratings though So You Think shouldn’t be such a price as he’s rated on a par with Cityscape and a pound inferior to Mr Gosden’s Nathaniel.
Back to the old 2012 Eclipse and it has to be So You Think for me here in his last race prior to a few assignations with some ‘Aussie Sheila’s’. However, I think those bookie chappies have got the heat about right and I won’t be getting involved at 4/6. On official ratings though So You Think shouldn’t be such a price as he’s rated on a par with Cityscape and a pound inferior to Mr Gosden’s Nathaniel.
I certainly won't be getting involved at 4/6 about SYT. The time to be on SYT was at Ascot when he pretty much had nothing to beat.*
As you say SBC, Nathaniel and City Scape are both very good horses, and it would not suprise me in the slightest if either of those upset the favourite*
As you say SBC, Nathaniel and City Scape are both very good horses, and it would not suprise me in the slightest if either of those upset the favourite
*I've said before, it is my belief that Frankel's temperament is behind the reasons for him not travelling overseas. The horse is very hot headed and the last thing you want is him having a meltdown in a horsebox, or, god forbid, on an plane.
That aside, Sir Henry has never really been one for campaigning horses regularly overseas, so I don't see that he is doing anything unusual by his own standards.
Again, I cite the examples of ZARKAVA who never even left the French metropolitan tracks during her career, racing 6 times at Longchamp and once at Chantilly and ZENYATTA who left California only once during her career. If there are races that fit the horse in your own backyard, why not use them?
That aside, Sir Henry has never really been one for campaigning horses regularly overseas, so I don't see that he is doing anything unusual by his own standards.
Again, I cite the examples of ZARKAVA who never even left the French metropolitan tracks during her career, racing 6 times at Longchamp and once at Chantilly and ZENYATTA who left California only once during her career. If there are races that fit the horse in your own backyard, why not use them?
Also being named after the greatest US Trainer of all time it would be a fitting tribute to run in The Breeders Cup.
Anyone know the going at Sandown at the mo? If it is soft then I am going to play Nathaniel at those odds. If not, I will wait til he returns to a mile and a half.
Any rain though and he will do these lot from the front IMO.
Fast ground against him though as SYT and FARHH might have more gears.
Any rain though and he will do these lot from the front IMO.
Fast ground against him though as SYT and FARHH might have more gears.
Good to Firm at the moment but that could all change by saturday as rain is expected but in dribs and drabs so the clerk is very doubtful whether come sat there will be soft in the description the worse he is expecting is what back home we would call yielding so on the easy side of good
Toppy, its going to rain all day today and most of tom at the course... Clearing up and getting better until sat afty when the rain will return, only light thou...
As according to the good ole BBC's weather forecast...
As for the going i dont know... hope that helps...
As according to the good ole BBC's weather forecast...
As for the going i dont know... hope that helps...
There's more hope of me running at Breeders' Cup than Frankel! I don't buy into the "World Thoroughbred Championships" element of the meeting, it is nothing but marketing spin.
Besides, once Frankel steps up to 10f the only race for him would be the Classic and Galileo's, like most Sadler's Wells line horses, don't go on dirt. Sadler's Wells had 20 runners at the BC meeting (mostly on turf) between 2000 and 2007, only 3 of them won. Galileo has so far had 13 runners, since 2006, and only 1 has won.
Besides, once Frankel steps up to 10f the only race for him would be the Classic and Galileo's, like most Sadler's Wells line horses, don't go on dirt. Sadler's Wells had 20 runners at the BC meeting (mostly on turf) between 2000 and 2007, only 3 of them won. Galileo has so far had 13 runners, since 2006, and only 1 has won.
It's a good point you make about Zarkava and Zenyatta Princess but then no-one is claiming these are the best horses in the World, ever. I think we are effectively saying (and this is no disrespect to Frankel) that if Frankel were to go to America, or France, or in fact anywhere beyond our shores, there is a distinct possibility he would lose. I'm delighted he isn't going to America, although (from a purely selfish viewpoint) it would have been terrific to see him in France. But, it would seem that he's not even going to be given much opportunity to beat the best overseas horses in his own back yard. That for me is a real shame and, despite his rating, this will, in some minds, always leave question marks over his head, whether we like it or not.
The Eclipse is the race to test Frankel and as has been mentioned there is zero point to watching him stretch away from the field in the Sussex. I have been so thrilled by Frankel and it's been made so much the better as he is trained by my favourite trainer as well but i have to say if he wins a Sussex and then wins a poorly contested Juddmonte then what was the point? The prince did not need the money, we learned nothing new and he did not increase his legacy. I personally would go King George, Juddmonte and Champion Stakes and if he wins those no questions can be left unanswered.
Tbh what would beat him in France - FRENCH FIFTEEN 
he would demolish everything anywhere in the world. If you lot can do a better job than Sir Henry I suggest you start training and then you can aim your selling class animals at the Arc 
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I suppose it is Sir Henry's fault that Camelot is not turning up for the Judmonte as well
he would demolish everything anywhere in the world. If you lot can do a better job than Sir Henry I suggest you start training and then you can aim your selling class animals at the Arc .I suppose it is Sir Henry's fault that Camelot is not turning up for the Judmonte as well
Frankels campaign should have been Lockinge then Eclipse taking on the classic generation and conceding weight then juddmonte the champion stakes at Newmarket followed by Retirement
The only reason I'd like to see Frankel go to the Breeders Cup, is because I know he would make mince meat of there 2nd rate horses. The Breeders Cup realy isn't any sort of 'world championships' that's just The arrogance of of Americans.*
The Breeders Cup is the USA horse racing championship, it is not the world, regardless of what they call it.*
Everyone knows that the best horses in America are knowere near as talented as the best we have, and it's the same every year.*
The only time they put there premiere race on a neutral surface, Ravens Pass and Henrythenavigator wiped the floor with there 2nd rate champion Curlin. *They only moved it back to dirt, because they knew our horses would win the Classic every year if they didn't*
The Breeders Cup is the USA horse racing championship, it is not the world, regardless of what they call it.*
Everyone knows that the best horses in America are knowere near as talented as the best we have, and it's the same every year.*
The only time they put there premiere race on a neutral surface, Ravens Pass and Henrythenavigator wiped the floor with there 2nd rate champion Curlin. *They only moved it back to dirt, because they knew our horses would win the Classic every year if they didn't
*
So why can Camelot not run in the Judmonte - but I don't see any of you twisting about O'Brien. No they would rather win the Irish Derby on "ground he barely walks on at home" O'Brien's words.