1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Do you still have faith in Poch ?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Hoddle is a god, Oct 20, 2019.

?

Do you still have faith in Poch?

Poll closed Nov 3, 2019.
  1. Yes

    63.3%
  2. No

    36.7%
  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,616
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    Here's the thing the Narrative mongers neglect to consider

    * Los Ladrones are at least two years behind schedule on their rebuild, coupled with a toxic fanbase with a charming habit of looking for any excuse to turn on certain players and crucify them in every single match because they have committed some completely unspecified sin and they must be judged for it
    * Barca have one hell of a rebuild waiting for them as Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Busquets and Pique are all north of 30 and the team's clearly been held together with gaffa tape long enough to get across the line in the last couple of seasons which simply can't last forever
    * Man Utd have been attempting to rebuild for five to six years and have repeatedly failed to make a decent go at it as they yo-yo in and out of the Top 4...mostly out
    * The Sheikh Mansour Team have a manager publicly talking about how he'll bugger off when his contract expires in 18 months, and as we all know when a manager says they are going to leave that causes the entire squad's heads to drop...
    * Bayern are a year behind on their rebuild and their usual approach to rebuilding is to wait until a player at another Bundesliga club's contract runs down, all while Rummenigge publicly slates players he thinks are not worthy of joining the club
    * Juventus are rebuilding but the cement of their rebuild is players being out of contract (which isn't a million miles away from Bayern's approach) and neither Kane nor Son are out of contract at the end of the season

    The reality of the situation is that all of Europe's elite clubs are either in the early stages of or at least a season behind in their rebuilding projects, with at least two of those clubs sitting on a potential timebomb that's going to go off in particularly unpleasant ways when it does, which begs the question which is worse: being part of a rebuild at Spurs, or being part of a potential cataclysmic event at Los Ladrones, Barca or Man Utd?
     
    #321
  2. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    36,289
    Likes Received:
    41,575
    Not a chance.
     
    #322
  3. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    72,219
    Likes Received:
    84,795
    About 4 years ago this group of players were to hit their collective peak right about now, according to many....instead we need an overhaul and rebuild. So many of our core players are hitting their ‘peak’ years yet here we are pissing about needing a rebuild and a heap of excuses as to why these players seem to have bypassed their ‘peak’ and gone straight into their ‘twilight’ years. My theory is they haven’t passed their peak...these are all excuses the fans are lapping up in order to make sense of the shambles. Yes a few are in their Twilight years but as a collective squad we are not...we infact should be hitting that Peak NOW!

    Feels like someone is pulling my pants down here

    I don’t appreciate how we shift the goalposts in order to give us a few more false dawns and to make everything look optimistic....Ive had enough of that **** from our fans and from ENIC

    I’m baffled as to why so many think we will have a fruitful January....please tell me the last time Levy did this at anything resembling the scale we talking about?

    All this is because LEVY got greedy and dreamt of Coutinho like figures for someone with less than 2 years left on his contract. Then he thought he will try for Hazard like figures for that same someone with a year left on his contract...you must be having a laugh...Hazard is leagues ahead of Eriksen....anyone who knows anything about football will know this. So either Levy is a stupid **** who is clueless about Football or he chanced it(this) and well here we are...a ****ing shambles..because Del Boy got it all wrong and due to this we haven’t spent. Oh yeah we spent...but only because we sold and no chance was ENIC getting away with a 3rd barren TW. Sorry I’m not having that ****e for a team fighting at the top and drowning in the TV money boom.

    Nothing of note happening in January to benefit us and if we do sign a first teamer ..well when was the last time Poch played someone straight away?

    Wish the fans would stop saying these things in the hope that they might happen when there is absolutely nothing to suggest that they will.
     
    #323
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
    yossarian and BobbyD like this.
  4. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    18,371
    Likes Received:
    9,828
    You are at your peak. This is it.
     
    #324
    Lovearsenalcock likes this.
  5. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    21,113
    Likes Received:
    16,156
    I'm going to have to disagree.

    Los ladrones and barca may need rebuilds but between them and atletico one of them will win the league, thats the whole point of the narrative, move get paid bucks and win trophies.

    Same with bayern. They may like a bargain but if they have to they will spend as they did paying 80m for that hernandez whos pretty crap.

    Juve are the same. 70m on de ligt this year and 100m on ronaldo the year before. If they want to they will buy.

    Out of all these clubs though i doubt any of them apart from real or juve will want to buy as they all have expensive cfs who have a few years left. Sonny boy is a different proposition as hes so versatile but i doubt hes a big enough name for them (which is not a good reason to not buy)
     
    #325
  6. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    72,219
    Likes Received:
    84,795
    Should have been building on it instead of having the barren transfer windows and it wouldn’t be looking like a car crash atm...you’re right now should be our Peak...after all the kids of 4 years ago are big men now.
     
    #326
  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,616
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    The reason why Bayern and Juve could spend big fees on one player is because they paid no fee whatsoever for another two, and with Bayern currently playing their usual waiting game with Timo Werner that would rule them out of a move for one of Son or Kane on that basis alone

    As for La Liga, you hit the nail on the head: one of Barca, Atleti or Los Ladrones will win the title...which is one club too many in the eyes of their boards, fanbase and friends in the Spanish press, and given Los Ladrones' miserable return in all competitions where their opponents weren't Al-Ain and Kashima Antlers last season the balance of power appears to be slipping away from them, so how is that an enticing prospect to anyone other than your bank manager?
     
    #327
  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    36,289
    Likes Received:
    41,575
    Agree with most but disagree about Levy wanting supposed figures for Eriksen.

    Most media reported that £50m-£60m would’ve been enough in the summer which is a very fair price for someone of his quality with one year left. Ultimately no one even made a bid so don’t think that can be on Levy.

    January we’re gonna have to buy regardless of who the manager is. It goes against what we usually do but then this is a time where we have to operate differently. Levy did say there were more funds in the summer hence why we were close to signing Dybala before Juve pulled the plug. As for how much more we have to spend this season it’s hard to say, I’d guess at circa £60m plus whatever we can make from sales (so give or take £80m ish). That should be enough to bring in at least two good players, ideally a CB and DM for me, although RB would be nice too but happy to give Foyth a run now he’s fit.
     
    #328
    Lovearsenalcock likes this.
  9. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,616
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    Reasons we need a rebuild in spite having much of the same squad as four years ago
    * Walker left and his replacement, Aurier, is not up to standard
    * Eriksen pissing about and letting his contract wind down
    * Toby pissing about with his contract for two years
    * Rose regressing horribly
    * Dier regressing as a midfielder
    * Wanyama's broken
    * Dembele was broken down, then left
    * We need an understudy for Harry Kane, as both Janssen and Llorente have left

    This is why the squad needs an overhaul, because compared to four years ago we have weaknesses at DM, LB and RB that we didn't then, because unlike in a game of FIFA in reality players can regress before their 30th birthday as Rose and Dier have demonstrated in the last season or so

    Meanwhile, as for your other questions

    When has Levy last invested in a widespread intake of players? Well let's see, in the 2017/18 season we signed Sanchez, Aurier, Foyth, Gazzaniga and Llorente in the summer and Lucas in January, so is that a satisfactory example of Levy sanctioning a rebuild during a transfer window? Because if that's too far ago for you, I could bring up the signings of Ndombele and Sessegnon plus the loan of Lo Celso this summer

    As for Poch not starting players straight away, good luck convincing anyone other than yourself that Ndombele hasn't been a fixture in the first team all season...

    Seriously, stop believing somebody with PochOut in their Twitter bio is a valuable source on anything other than knowing which Baddiel-faced blogger you should read
     
    #329
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  10. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    72,219
    Likes Received:
    84,795
    I don’t read Twitter or any blog...we are always at some sort of handicap that’s not because of me that’s because of those running our club.

    You call them bulk signings first team players? Not right away...no need to clutch at straws mate...you and I both know we won’t be signing what we need in January. As for this Summers signings...you are a dream punter for Levy <laugh>

    As a Spurs fan I refuse to cling onto one top transfer window out of the last 3 like it’s something to shout about. You realise we only made such purchases due to the barren windows...therefore having had a wet dream window for some Spurs fans this summer gone is the exception and not the rule and exactly the kind of thing Levy does and will buy him the next decade for some.
     
    #330
    BobbyD likes this.

  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,616
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    Are you trying to say that Sanchez and Aurier weren't first team signings? Because they were, and the only reason that Aurier isn't playing regularly is because he failed to live up to expectations. Similarly we signed Llorente as the Kane backup that we needed (and Janssen failed to be the season before) and that's exactly what he was, while Foyth was the typical "one for the future" signing instead of, say, somebody to be assigned to the academy for a couple of seasons before we ever hear of them again. The fact one of those players failed to live up to expectations and another has departed is why an overhaul is necessary

    Also, I wasn't citing one transfer window out of three, I clearly cited two out of three, namely the 2017 and 2019 summer windows

    We did not sign Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon because of "barren windows", considering we made bids for Ndombele in the summer of 2018 and for Sessegnon in January of 2018, but neither bid was accepted as Lyon had just signed Ndombele and basically told us to bugger off while Sessegnon wasn't leaving Fulham as they were on course for promotion to the Premier League, we signed them because they were players we needed: Ndombele being the Dembele replacement we needed eighteen months ago when it was clear Moose wasn't able to perform at the levels he was (and that's before we sold him) and Sessegnon being a long-term Rose replacement who can also work as a pacy option on the left wing

    And how many times do I need to spell this out for people: the reason we did not sign anyone in the summer of 2018 was we did not have any non-HG spots remaining in our squad, and due to a combination of injury (Dembele, Janssen), an expected bid not materialising (Alderweireld) and a lack of interest (N'Koudou) we were unable to add to our squad. Blaming Levy for a team not wanting to sign a player who was injured makes as much sense as blaming Levy for Leeds loaning in six players when they can only include five loanees in a matchday squad...oh wait
     
    #331
    Lovearsenalcock and vimhawk like this.
  12. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    I don't need someone to blame. To win trophies we have to outperform many other clubs. We have not done that for years. Criticism of people who have made us a lot better but not quite better enough doesn't help anyone. I trust Poch and Levy to make better decisions than anyone else will about how to take us forward from here. I don't care whether those decisions are the ones I would have made and don't have particularly high hopes for signings making a difference.
     
    #332
    Lovearsenalcock likes this.
  13. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    14,500
    Thank god you guys have stopped saying NEXT after all your posts <laugh>

    Poch did a fantastic job to get you in the top 4 with such a small amount spent.
    Unfortunately, as is evident in todays game, organisation, passion and great coaching will only get you so far.
    You need the money to back it up as well.
    A trophyless season, coupled with other players (especially when on International duty) saying "Oh come to [insert team] Harry, you'll double your salary easy" and it starts to turn the players heads, then their form dips, then its up to the manager to try fix the clusterfuck and get the players minds back on the task at hand.

    Slippery snake agents dont help either.
    Its today's game I am afraid, a couple of seasons without any trophies, and most players start getting ants in their pants, coaxed by their agents to move clubs to a more successful one that will boost the players wages and profile......
     
    #333
    PowerSpurs likes this.
  14. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    21,113
    Likes Received:
    16,156
    Thats actually 6 transfer windows.

    Also im not sure not signing players because you cannot sell players (for whatever reason) is a good approach to transfers. If every dud acted like rose and chose not to move (hello winston Bogarde) then you would never sign any player which we know is not a way to improve
     
    #334
    Lovearsenalcock likes this.
  15. Mr Bungle

    Mr Bungle Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    59
    I would say this team are past their peak. Not necessarily in terms of all the players having reached and passed their personal peak (although a few have) but in terms of a collective as a team. They came close to the league in 2016 and they came close to the Champions League in 2018, but ended up with nothing. To me it looks like a little bit of heart has gone from this team and manager and they need a refresh. There are a few that want out already and that is never good for team morale.

    The danger for them holding onto players is that they become disillusioned and want out, then their value falls. If Levy is as shrewd as some make him out to be, he should probably sell Alli, Kane and a few others while their stock is high and reinvest whilst he can
     
    #335
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,616
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    Looks like two summers out of three to me

    In terms of the backed-up deadwood clogging up the transfer business, here's the reality of the situation: Foyth graduating from an U21 to a senior player saw us exceed our squad's non-HG quota, hence Janssen wasn't included in our Premier League squad while Foyth had to be dropped from the Champions League squad, with both being registered only after Dembele departed. Because of this, every non-HG player signed meant a different one would have to be dropped from the squad, and while we could justify dropping Janssen as he was out until November due to having foot surgery in the summer so wouldn't be match fit until January at the earliest, after that the only player we could really justify dropping was N'Koudou as we'd been trying to shift him for six months by that point anyway but that still meant we could only sign one non-HG player
     
    #336
  17. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    72,219
    Likes Received:
    84,795
    You know things like...Moussa Dembele’s replacement found 18 months later?

    That’s the type of **** I’m talking about that keeps us lagging

    Badly run at the top...go on admit it bru
     
    #337
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,616
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    We identified Ndombele as Dembele's replacement during the 2017-18 season and we made a bid for him in the summer of 2018 - and were told to bugger off by Lyon as they'd only just turned his loan permanent and weren't interested in immediately cashing in

    Imagine if we made Lo Celso's loan permanent this summer and immediately received an offer from Dortmund for him. That's the scenario that happened with Ndombele last summer
     
    #338
  19. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    21,113
    Likes Received:
    16,156
    I'm sure they would have been fine if you paid them enough (like 55m + 10m add ons) as ndomebele only cost lyon 10m. If you bought lo celso for 50m after his loan and someone offered significantly more like 200m i bet you he would be gone in a heartbeat.
     
    #339
  20. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    19,964
    Likes Received:
    26,260
    I wouldn’t say badly run, if anything Spurs are the opposite and run too well financially.

    Unfortunately in football you need to take risks on/off the pitch if you want proper glory.
     
    #340
    Lovearsenalcock likes this.

Share This Page