What don't you understand grumpygit!
The only goals that get mentioned are by the Messiah Cody...keep up man lolDickenson
- Thread starter alwaysright
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
What don't you understand grumpygit!
The only goals that get mentioned are by the Messiah Cody...keep up man lol
grumpygit
Having started this thread, I am responsible for 'certain justification' for my criticism ( not that I need much excuse for 'having a go.')
In parts I have agreed with you on some point of mitigation. I totally agree that Dickenson has not had adequate support ( especially at Colchester ). I have said, more than once, that the manager is at fault for not addressing the problems - when remedies were available. Those remedies also include the replacement of Dickenson at fullback. He can be utilised ' wide,up front.' --- because -- ( and, I make no apologies for stressing the point ), Dickenson is not a fullback - THAT is the point of the thread. You can give strip away the support that Jackson receives, and you'd still fancy him to 'cope' at RB - but you cannot say the same of Dickenson - his decision making ( in terms of timing his tackles ) is appalling --- ( not his fault - he doesn't think like a natural fullback.)
JE needs to take much blame for his 'appointments' and tactics - but in the meantime, we have a liability at LB ( without any cover ) - teams WILL find this out very quickly - From recollection, ALL our conceded goals (except the second at Colchester ) , originated on our left, - AND, even THAT goal was as a result of another forward (Norris), messing about at 'right fullback'.
Having started this thread, I am responsible for 'certain justification' for my criticism ( not that I need much excuse for 'having a go.')
In parts I have agreed with you on some point of mitigation. I totally agree that Dickenson has not had adequate support ( especially at Colchester ). I have said, more than once, that the manager is at fault for not addressing the problems - when remedies were available. Those remedies also include the replacement of Dickenson at fullback. He can be utilised ' wide,up front.' --- because -- ( and, I make no apologies for stressing the point ), Dickenson is not a fullback - THAT is the point of the thread. You can give strip away the support that Jackson receives, and you'd still fancy him to 'cope' at RB - but you cannot say the same of Dickenson - his decision making ( in terms of timing his tackles ) is appalling --- ( not his fault - he doesn't think like a natural fullback.)
JE needs to take much blame for his 'appointments' and tactics - but in the meantime, we have a liability at LB ( without any cover ) - teams WILL find this out very quickly - From recollection, ALL our conceded goals (except the second at Colchester ) , originated on our left, - AND, even THAT goal was as a result of another forward (Norris), messing about at 'right fullback'.
Last edited:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34411172
Interesting ? I may be tempted to bet on a penalty being awarded on Saturday - then I could celebrate with a glass of my favourite drink !
Interesting ? I may be tempted to bet on a penalty being awarded on Saturday - then I could celebrate with a glass of my favourite drink !
May I be the first ( on here ), to say 'Well done' to Dickenson - for his terrific work in the build up to our first goal. This is exactly what he does best, and how he should be used.
I do have reservations about what he achieved as a fullback - but, on a day when both defences were guilty of poor performances for four of the six goals, it doesn't seem fair to single him out and repeat what I have already said.
I do have reservations about what he achieved as a fullback - but, on a day when both defences were guilty of poor performances for four of the six goals, it doesn't seem fair to single him out and repeat what I have already said.
I do believe I read somewhere yesterday than 7 of the last 9 goals we have conceded have come down Dickenson's flank. The fact that he has been subbed at half time twice now and continued to start is bewildering. He did start the season in blistering form and there is no doubting that, however it does appear that the upturn in outlr perfomances has been since we've lost Oshilaja in defence. Now I'm not trying to slate Ehmer because we all know how good Max can be, but there was a reason why Max had been consigned to the bench behind this chap. Now I will refer back to the Wigan game in particular, there were a couple of occasions where Dickenson was out of position, however due to Deji's power and pace, he was able to mop up almost instantly whereas it doesn't appear Max quite has that understanding. Now whether that is something Cardiff have instilled into him I don't know but Deji always appeared to be there to make sure we were safe and clear. Whether this gave Dickenson the freedom to be able to push forward and back with the reassurance he was safe or not only he really knows but our recent change in style and perfomances does tie in to when he got injured.
Apparently he was 'nearly' ready for the Oldham game. I'd like to see him given a 'try-out' v Luton tomorrow night.
I don't like destroying a good argument with facts, but, lets start with the 7 out of 9 goals, Against Oldham the first goal came from a corner and with many chances to clear (including Egan) we failed to deal with it, the second goal was on the left but only as far as Loft in midfield who gave the ball away and the guy cut inside , the third goal again came down the left but only as far as midfield where Hess gave the man too much room and he played the diagonal ball into our area.(Egan and Nelson could both have done better)
I don't know if it was a oversight but you forgot to mention Dickenson's 2 assists, I will not forget to mention the own goal.
He has been subbed at half time after receiving a yellow card, it is common for some managers to protect players on a yellow by taking them off.
I believe that Dickenson along with Norris are young players for the future and are nowhere near the finished article. If they were they wouldn't be playing in League One. I've seen posts where Norris is criticised for his long range efforts and lack of goals scored, at least he is prepared to have a go and try something a bit different.
Both are keen, young and give their all. When it all 'clicks' and I believe it will, everyone will be happy.
This may sound controversial......but perhaps our stellar start to the season has made the players tasks that bit harder. We do not have an enormous depth of reserve as can be seen by the absence of Deli and its effect and the concerns over Jackson's tweak.
It's not just the 'forwards' who get injured (and cause worries).......every place out there in the team has a key role to play and to cover all eventualities would take a staff the size of Man City.....
Onwards and upwards.
Both are keen, young and give their all. When it all 'clicks' and I believe it will, everyone will be happy.
This may sound controversial......but perhaps our stellar start to the season has made the players tasks that bit harder. We do not have an enormous depth of reserve as can be seen by the absence of Deli and its effect and the concerns over Jackson's tweak.
It's not just the 'forwards' who get injured (and cause worries).......every place out there in the team has a key role to play and to cover all eventualities would take a staff the size of Man City.....
Onwards and upwards.
Windyrog
I admire your loyalty towards Dickenson and Norris. I also realise that your opportunities to see games are 'limited.' - but the truth is that it will never 'click' for Dickenson if he is expected to be a fullback - he 'thinks' too much like a forward. I'm struggling to get grumpygit to accept that situation - and yet he then goes onto to extol Dickenson's virtues when mentioning the goal assists on Saturday. He mentions the lack of support that Dickenson is getting -- a point I totally accept -- but there is no disguising Dickenson's lack of 'fullback thinking.'- yes, there are others who have made mistakes - but they do not form the same liability that Dickenson, (at full-back), represents.
I think that we're [mainly] agreed that it is JE 's responsibility to recognise the situation and properly deal with it - otherwise Dickenson will continue to get only 45 minutes at best ( when not serving a suspension for the cards he's getting ).
As for Norris - he works reasonably hard. He can do some good stuff - but, without a supporting striker, his effectiveness will be limited - but - that has been a problem we've always had. On Saturday, Donnelly was moved back into midfield (almost right back at times ) - and our lack of numbers up front meant that we created virtually nothing for most of the second half. I couldn't understand why JE's tactics were so negative in the second half.
I admire your loyalty towards Dickenson and Norris. I also realise that your opportunities to see games are 'limited.' - but the truth is that it will never 'click' for Dickenson if he is expected to be a fullback - he 'thinks' too much like a forward. I'm struggling to get grumpygit to accept that situation - and yet he then goes onto to extol Dickenson's virtues when mentioning the goal assists on Saturday. He mentions the lack of support that Dickenson is getting -- a point I totally accept -- but there is no disguising Dickenson's lack of 'fullback thinking.'- yes, there are others who have made mistakes - but they do not form the same liability that Dickenson, (at full-back), represents.
I think that we're [mainly] agreed that it is JE 's responsibility to recognise the situation and properly deal with it - otherwise Dickenson will continue to get only 45 minutes at best ( when not serving a suspension for the cards he's getting ).
As for Norris - he works reasonably hard. He can do some good stuff - but, without a supporting striker, his effectiveness will be limited - but - that has been a problem we've always had. On Saturday, Donnelly was moved back into midfield (almost right back at times ) - and our lack of numbers up front meant that we created virtually nothing for most of the second half. I couldn't understand why JE's tactics were so negative in the second half.
You must log in or register to see media
You'll see that Dickenson was nowhere the Luton scorer, ( and should have been ). Again - I say it's not his fault - he's a square peg in a round hole. ( JE PLEASE note).
I'd also like to point out that Garmston did brilliantly to supply goal number two. Pace, final ball AND can defend...
I didn't want to say that - because I didn't want to offend grumpygit - any more than I probably have.
I don't expect other teams not to score against us - I just want the players being used in their best ( least worst ) position. Going foward, Dickenson has shown improvement on last season - but he is a liability at fullback. (nothing personal)
Always, you won't offend me by praising Garmston for a good cross/cut-back, the lad did well and should get praise, I do notice the praise for Dickenson's crosses less well broadcast. Looking at the video you posted aiming to show just how bad Dickenson is, I wasn't sure which man he let go? there were 3 Luton players standing in front of our goal and no defenders in sight apart from Ben, so why single out one player for the criticism when clearly none of the defenders where doing their job.
Grumpygit
If you read back through my posts in this thread you'll establish that I have said --
1. It's not all Dickenson's fault. I have stated that others have made mistakes.
2. I have stated that Dickenson has not received the support he has needed.
3. I have stated that Dickenson has improved this season.
4. I have praised the work that Dickenson has provided ( when going forward ).
5. JE is not doing Dickenson's career any good using him as a fullback.
6. JE is not doing The Gills any good by using Dickenson at fullback.
7. Dickenson has been the 'common denominator' too often when we have been 'under attack'.
8. No.7 is compounded when a 'more natural' fullback - Garmstron 'appears' to make that position 'safer.'
9. Despite my 'protest' at Dickenson being used as a fullback, I have no personal 'axe to grind.' It could just as easily relate to Dack or McDonald if they were put at fullback - or in goal !
10. Quite simply, Dickenson is a liability at fullback - I welcome him being used as a forward (as it fits in with team selection. )
11. I am not on a witch hunt - I will praise and criticise anyone when I feel it is appropriate - I sincerely wish that I could have fewer opportunities to repeat myself as far as it relates to Brennan.
edit Re 'Who he was supposed to be stopping' - I thought it was obvious that Dickenson was not stopping anyone - especially the No.8 (goal scorer) - who Brennan could have 'covered.' ( agreeing that it wasn't the best of 'team' efforts. )
If you read back through my posts in this thread you'll establish that I have said --
1. It's not all Dickenson's fault. I have stated that others have made mistakes.
2. I have stated that Dickenson has not received the support he has needed.
3. I have stated that Dickenson has improved this season.
4. I have praised the work that Dickenson has provided ( when going forward ).
5. JE is not doing Dickenson's career any good using him as a fullback.
6. JE is not doing The Gills any good by using Dickenson at fullback.
7. Dickenson has been the 'common denominator' too often when we have been 'under attack'.
8. No.7 is compounded when a 'more natural' fullback - Garmstron 'appears' to make that position 'safer.'
9. Despite my 'protest' at Dickenson being used as a fullback, I have no personal 'axe to grind.' It could just as easily relate to Dack or McDonald if they were put at fullback - or in goal !
10. Quite simply, Dickenson is a liability at fullback - I welcome him being used as a forward (as it fits in with team selection. )
11. I am not on a witch hunt - I will praise and criticise anyone when I feel it is appropriate - I sincerely wish that I could have fewer opportunities to repeat myself as far as it relates to Brennan.
edit Re 'Who he was supposed to be stopping' - I thought it was obvious that Dickenson was not stopping anyone - especially the No.8 (goal scorer) - who Brennan could have 'covered.' ( agreeing that it wasn't the best of 'team' efforts. )
Last edited:
Dickenson isn't a left back according to your own admission, yet he is being criticised (by name) for the Luton goal.
1. The play came in from the right side.
2. The goal was scored by 1 of 3 unmarked players standing on our 6 yard line.
3. The player at right back is also playing out of position.
4. The players at centre back are recognised as being centre backs.
5. The recognised centre backs where out of position. (a point often thrown at Dickenson)
6. The midfield had failed to drop back and cover.
7. The right back was playing all 3 Luton players onside as he had broken the line (Dickenson was holding the line)
Overall this was poor defending as a team, why do we single out 1 player by name for criticism and leave the rest alone.
Scapegoat is the word that springs to mind.
1. The play came in from the right side.
2. The goal was scored by 1 of 3 unmarked players standing on our 6 yard line.
3. The player at right back is also playing out of position.
4. The players at centre back are recognised as being centre backs.
5. The recognised centre backs where out of position. (a point often thrown at Dickenson)
6. The midfield had failed to drop back and cover.
7. The right back was playing all 3 Luton players onside as he had broken the line (Dickenson was holding the line)
Overall this was poor defending as a team, why do we single out 1 player by name for criticism and leave the rest alone.
Scapegoat is the word that springs to mind.
grumpygit
I refer to [my] post No.36........
Please see Nos 1, 7 & 10
No.2 I accept that not all the Luton players were marked - that is why I have said that others in the team have also made mistakes.
No.3 Osadebe was doing as much as could be expected - but - like with Dickenson, he wasn't helped when he was faced with taking on two.
No.4 The ball 'ballooned up' off Ehmer - and 'freakishly' totally took out our central defenders (Houghton & Morris).
No.5 (see No.4)
N0.6 Agreed- it happens.
No.7 The ball was deflected into our 6 yard box off Ehmer (unfortunate) - completely by-passed our central defenders - allowing the Luton players to 'steal in' behind them and ready to pounce on a bit of good fortune. You might think that Dickenson was holding 'the line', I would say that 'normal' fullbacks would achieve THAT and {hopefully), still remain close enough to 'their player' to be able to cover if the tactic went wrong.
It is OBVIOUS in the footage, that Dickenson was in NO position to cover anything in Luton's goal. The overall defending down our RIGHT could have been better - but the goal was largely dictated by the deflection 'taking out' our central defenders - but, I submit, the same deflection does not appear to have the same affect on the fact that Dickenson was nowhere near the Luton forward who scored. He was down our LEFT side.
I refer to comments 1, 7 & 10 in my post No.36.
Whilst I accept others make mistakes - Dickenson makes too many ( because Dickenson is NOT a fullback ).
Too many times we have been (and will be) at risk down our left (because Dickenson is NOT a fullback).
I love my team - and I am fully aware that we are but a humble League 1 side -- I do not expect us to be world beaters. I accept the limitations of individual and collective quality of the players. I make mistakes. Sometimes I get punished - but - by and large, I am reasonably successful in my ambitions - but if I can't do brain surgery, please do not give me a scalpel and expect me not to make a mistake !
I can accept mistakes made by any of our players - including all the mistakes made by Dickenson - because they all, generally are honest players, being [generally] asked to play in their correct position .
The overall responsibility lies with Edinburgh. It is his fault !I am not making Dickenson a scapegoat- he is unwittingly the 'fall guy' for the positional mistake by JE.
I have said all along that it is NOT Dickenson's fault - Edinburgh has asked Dickenson to do the job of a fullback - and because he doesn't 'think' like a fullback, Dickenson is a liability in that position. Edinburgh has not done enough to address this problem. He is ruining Dickenson's career and putting the side at risk of inviting teams to attack our weak link. I don't think JE is being fair to other, largely unused and 'recognised' fullbacks. He is not being fair on the rest of team on the pitch. He is not being fair on the fans by not [at least], using any instruction to cover the weak point in our side - but most of all, he is not being fair on Dickenson - who is not a scapegoat - but neither is he a fullback.
I refer to [my] post No.36........
Please see Nos 1, 7 & 10
No,1 Osadebe was 'there' - but had been beaten by being 'doubled upon' - and, yes the midfield could have done better to prevent that.
No.2 I accept that not all the Luton players were marked - that is why I have said that others in the team have also made mistakes.
No.3 Osadebe was doing as much as could be expected - but - like with Dickenson, he wasn't helped when he was faced with taking on two.
No.4 The ball 'ballooned up' off Ehmer - and 'freakishly' totally took out our central defenders (Houghton & Morris).
No.5 (see No.4)
N0.6 Agreed- it happens.
No.7 The ball was deflected into our 6 yard box off Ehmer (unfortunate) - completely by-passed our central defenders - allowing the Luton players to 'steal in' behind them and ready to pounce on a bit of good fortune. You might think that Dickenson was holding 'the line', I would say that 'normal' fullbacks would achieve THAT and {hopefully), still remain close enough to 'their player' to be able to cover if the tactic went wrong.
It is OBVIOUS in the footage, that Dickenson was in NO position to cover anything in Luton's goal. The overall defending down our RIGHT could have been better - but the goal was largely dictated by the deflection 'taking out' our central defenders - but, I submit, the same deflection does not appear to have the same affect on the fact that Dickenson was nowhere near the Luton forward who scored. He was down our LEFT side.
I refer to comments 1, 7 & 10 in my post No.36.
Whilst I accept others make mistakes - Dickenson makes too many ( because Dickenson is NOT a fullback ).
Too many times we have been (and will be) at risk down our left (because Dickenson is NOT a fullback).
I love my team - and I am fully aware that we are but a humble League 1 side -- I do not expect us to be world beaters. I accept the limitations of individual and collective quality of the players. I make mistakes. Sometimes I get punished - but - by and large, I am reasonably successful in my ambitions - but if I can't do brain surgery, please do not give me a scalpel and expect me not to make a mistake !
I can accept mistakes made by any of our players - including all the mistakes made by Dickenson - because they all, generally are honest players, being [generally] asked to play in their correct position .
The overall responsibility lies with Edinburgh. It is his fault !I am not making Dickenson a scapegoat- he is unwittingly the 'fall guy' for the positional mistake by JE.
I have said all along that it is NOT Dickenson's fault - Edinburgh has asked Dickenson to do the job of a fullback - and because he doesn't 'think' like a fullback, Dickenson is a liability in that position. Edinburgh has not done enough to address this problem. He is ruining Dickenson's career and putting the side at risk of inviting teams to attack our weak link. I don't think JE is being fair to other, largely unused and 'recognised' fullbacks. He is not being fair on the rest of team on the pitch. He is not being fair on the fans by not [at least], using any instruction to cover the weak point in our side - but most of all, he is not being fair on Dickenson - who is not a scapegoat - but neither is he a fullback.
I feel for the full backs every time the other team are on the attack to be honest because the system we play will always leave them exposed. Dickenson has certainly suffered from this and his form has dropped after his blistering start to the season.
I think for Chestefield on Saturday it's pretty simple, Dickenson had another poor game on Tuesday, his 4th in a row in my view, whereas Garmston came on and set up a goal which somehow got him MOM (for me it should have gone to Lennon or Osadabe for his 2nd half performance) which means that Garmston should start on Saturday, he will be buzzing after that and he have the luxury of choices in most positions, therefore play the form players.
I think for Chestefield on Saturday it's pretty simple, Dickenson had another poor game on Tuesday, his 4th in a row in my view, whereas Garmston came on and set up a goal which somehow got him MOM (for me it should have gone to Lennon or Osadabe for his 2nd half performance) which means that Garmston should start on Saturday, he will be buzzing after that and he have the luxury of choices in most positions, therefore play the form players.