Dembele

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NowsufferinginSpain said:
I think a lot of the comments I've just read come down to what I said earlier - give the guy some more time. I really don't believe he was anywhere near fully fit for a lot of last season.

As for delivering killer balls, to who? We are not currently overburdened with world class strikers making the kind of runs that invite that type of pass.
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True enough - he needs time. I'm very optimistic overall about him but he's not really delivered massively for us yet. I think he himself acknowledges this.

Not sure about the strikers making runs point. It's an interesting one and difficult (for me) to really quantify as runs off the ball that come to nothing are very missable - especially on the telly. I just think that Defoe, for one, makes plenty of towards-goal runs doesn't he? You might have a good point, though - not sure. We certainly aren't over-burdened with players who get in the box much.
 
lennypops said:
True enough - he needs time. I'm very optimistic overall about him but he's not really delivered massively for us yet. I think he himself acknowledges this.

Not sure about the strikers making runs point. It's an interesting one and difficult (for me) to really quantify as runs off the ball that come to nothing are very missable - especially on the telly. I just think that Defoe, for one, makes plenty of towards-goal runs doesn't he? You might have a good point, though - not sure. We certainly aren't over-burdened with players who get in the box much.
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True Lenny, Defoe has a great eye for a scoring opportunity. However, with increasingly sophisticated defensive systems nowadays, it's not just about making any run, but an intelligent run. Defoe is a natural predator, but I don't think huge amounts of intelligence are one of his stronger points.
 
Dembele's a weird one.

While he clearly has immense talent, he's very inconsistent.

When he initially joined, he had a somewhat honeymoon period of playing out of his skin, I remember even saying at some point that even though he was a completely different player, he somehow filled the void left by Modric... Perhaps I jinxed it as throughout the rest of the season (injury aside), he never really got going. Part was probably down to Sandro's injury as the pair were great together but not all can be blamed on one guy being out the side as a result of another's below-par performances. He lacks goals too, for a guy who initially started out as a striker, you'd expect a better return of 1 league goal from a £15m midfielder.
I've no doubt Mousa has great talent and can be an awesome player for us but he really needs to get that consistency up (and score more goals!).
 
I love watching the guy.
He was massively hampered by Sandro getting injured (forced to cover more defensively) and i think he was rushed back from injury and was possibly suffering the effects of it.
 
Sounds like quite a mixed bag- don't think his talent can be denied but interesting to read comments about him not producing or scoring much. He was widely praised at Fulham and was one of the finest players I've seen at the fortress but he wasn't scoring much, although his assist rate was rising.

Initially I put it down to his change of position, in the middle the main task is not to lose the ball- and he did that well. The problem is shooting- if he shoots and misses he's lost the ball, if he plays it safe we keep possession. Very often he would take the 'safe' route rather than go for the goal, despite appearing to be more than capable of taking the man on and getting a shot off.

The chap next to me called him a 'con' man and really didn't like him.. quite passionately too. Bizarrely he seems to have a soft spot for Ruiz now.

When he left us for Spurs I thought it would be a stepping stone to a CL team (no offence intended, you are a step up from us)- it all depends on this season I guess. On my FM manager game was on the transfer list by Jan 2013. He's someone I think will only get better with age but there are doubts about his knees.

Still, was sad to see him go. Nice to see he isn't doing too badly- unlike our other star who made the move!

EDIT: Forgot to say about when he was being played in a more advanced position- I don't know if Spurs have worked on this but he wasn't great at finding space without the ball- in fact quite often when he was up front or off the striker he would just stand next to his man. Fortunately he's good enough to beat most players with limited space but the better defenders can suss it out. He doesn't seem to have a natural instinct for goal. He's not the type to be running in behind into space for the through ball- he often gets it quite static.
 
Cheers, silkship.

While I admit numbers can be worthless or actively misleading, I think all the great ones involving Dembele for us last year indicate he was doing something really right, which didn't involve goals or assists. It may be that he gave the ball away less while getting it from back to front than anyone else, or that it was a combination of that with helping to win the midfield battle.

Though no one including me seems to like him much, Dempsey's goals were vital for us last year. I'm hoping if we do lose him and or Gylfi in the mix, we get players who produce as many goals.
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
Cheers, silkship.

While I admit numbers can be worthless or actively misleading, I think all the great ones involving Dembele for us last year indicate he was doing something really right, which didn't involve goals or assists. It may be that he gave the ball away less while getting it from back to front than anyone else, or that it was a combination of that with helping to win the midfield battle.

Though no one including me seems to like him much, Dempsey's goals were vital for us last year. I'm hoping if we do lose him and or Gylfi in the mix, we get players who produce as many goals.
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All good points there <ok> ball retention is the phrase we're looking for, and he links attacks better than he creates from what I've seen so far, he's not bad at retrieval nicking it back either. His sorties forward often draw fouls/free kicks, in recent years that was basically loss of possession from thereon!, but with weapon Bale now its another threat. All very valuable skills in midfield, vital. Its utilising him in the right role as I think he is only average in other areas of his game, as we've seen, used wrongly he does look like a square peg in a round hole, so I do have questions over his versatility. Its a shame as he is an elegant player to watch, but one you need to build a team round I think, which is unfortunate when we're trying to build a team round Bale.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
He's a player i've always rated. I think maybe some are being a little hasty in their judgement. He was certainly played out of his natural position for much of last season, and he never seemed to fully recover from his injury - always looked liked he was still carrying it.

If he is fully fit and given his head next season, I think he will then be able to give his best.
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Agree with this. Also he hasn't had a proper partner to play alongside in Sandro so he's had to be even more tentative. Sorry but Parker isn't up to it, IMO. Average player overhyped by English media, good enough at West Ham but not for a club like Spurs with higher aspirations.
 
If you have a player with the ability to run into a crowd of opposition players and go through them keeping the ball you have a very valuable asset. Dembele can do this! We are often playing against packed defences we should encourage Dembele to run into the penalty area more often, the havoc he will cause will produce chances. How many he himself scores is irrelevant IMO.
 
Spurf said:
If you have a player with the ability to run into a crowd of opposition players and go through them keeping the ball you have a very valuable asset. Dembele can do this! We are often playing against packed defences we should encourage Dembele to run into the penalty area more often, the havoc he will cause will produce chances. How many he himself scores is irrelevant IMO.
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Running with the ball from midfield into the area is difficult though. I don't think there's a player in the league that can consistently stop Dembele taking the ball past them but going past more than 1 or 2 at a time is very difficult as the opposition will swarm around you looking to pick off the ball whilst you're still going around someone. If he's given more license to get forward there's a decent chance he could find himself with less players to get past and alongside someone like Paulinho he could have someone similar to link up with in dangerous positions. The most important thing though is that he needs a bit more urgency to his game. It's hard to tell whether he's confident being on the ball or cautious not to lose it but he plays it too slowly too, especially when he's only midway up the pitch.

I think there's a top player in there somewhere but we don't see nearly enough of it.
 
District Line said:
Agree with this. Also he hasn't had a proper partner to play alongside in Sandro so he's had to be even more tentative. Sorry but Parker isn't up to it, IMO. Average player overhyped by English media, good enough at West Ham but not for a club like Spurs with higher aspirations.
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Unfortunately, Parker is an out & out destroyer. And, at that, he is/was very good. Breaking up opposition play, harrying them, etc. The problem comes after he's won the ball!, he invariably gives it straight back to the opposition. So yes, he might be good enough for a more negative side, but we need somebody who can not only win the ball, but distribute it intelligently as well.
 
don't forget that, if i recall, we had a pretty damn good record when Dembele played last year. Like someone said, individual stats aren't the be all and end all. Modric didn't score many either
 
Perhaps he was shackled somewhat by wiping the bottoms of other midfielders in Sandro's absence.
I agree with the person who said he'll bulldoze his way through and then stop, and play the simple pass.
He's no Modric, but then, he never was/will be.
 
Spurf said:
If you have a player with the ability to run into a crowd of opposition players and go through them keeping the ball you have a very valuable asset. Dembele can do this! We are often playing against packed defences we should encourage Dembele to run into the penalty area more often, the havoc he will cause will produce chances. How many he himself scores is irrelevant IMO.
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What, just to not get awarded the penalties???? <laugh>

Seriously, totally agree that he seems more than capable of doing this, but he showed it too intermittently last season. Whether it was the injuries, lack of Sandro, the way he was being asked to play or just his failing I have no idea.... Still reckon he can prove to be a top player for us, however.
 
Spurm said:
don't forget that, if i recall, we had a pretty damn good record when Dembele played last year. Like someone said, individual stats aren't the be all and end all. Modric didn't score many either
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True, but we only managed the CL once with him in the side, falling short in other seasons because of lack of goals. Look at our goals scored compared to the others around us last season, miles behind, GD also dreadful in comparison. I know our strikers were really poor, but Bale JD and Dempsey aside the contribution from elswhere in the squad was grim, 3 of our Centre Backs equalled or beat MD's goal tally, so I'm baffled why we suggest to put a player in a forward position who's crap at scoring. I'm not saying we should find a 15 goal MFer and nothing else, it'd be nice but thats being silly, but whats also silly is another player who's goal tally only needs one hands worth of fingers with some spare! The last few points by YV in post #30 are also good ones, whilst excellent in the mid third of the pitch, gets a bit of a nosebleed higher up in the final third, the hesitancy I see can undo all the blinding work to get there, losing initiative in the move, and that happened many many times itself last season. Someone said he had poor striker movement, a more complete MFer in that situation would look to press forward alone, with MD its check, sideways or backwards, I'd very much like to see him press on, but last season he all too often chose not too.

We all acknowledge we've had difficulty breaking sides down, this is one reason why.
 
To break modern organised defences down, you need a midfielder with the vision to make the right pass, and a striker with the brains to make a clever run. IMO, Dembele is a fine player, but also he needs a striker to make those runs. Last season it wasn't happening.

I'm not saying he's a replacement for Modric, he's not. He doesn't have that in him. But, conversely, he brings attributes that Modric will never possess.
 
I'm with nsis. Yes, we do need more goals from midfield, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should come from Dembele (or by replacing Dembele). Not every player on the pitch needs to bang in 10-15 goals every season to be a key player in a team.

Edit - i meant nsis not notso in original, so confused, lol
 
Spurm said:
I'm with notso. Yes, we do need more goals from midfield, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should come from Dembele (or by replacing Dembele). Not every player on the pitch needs to bang in 10-15 goals every season to be a key player in a team.
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Thats my point Spurm, I don't think we should push for Dembele to score more, if he had it in him, at 25/26 we would have seen some of it by now, he has a role to play, but creativity with that final cutting edge doesn't seem to be his thing. Its a big season coming up for him, and I hope he shows us more, but I won't be too surprised if he doesn't. I also agree with your last point which I touched on previously, other teams have influential players that don't score much, but they're not pressed into a position where they need to.
 
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