Dembele

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S

silkship

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2011
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Hello there!

It's a bit quiet on the FFC board at the moment- thought I might canvass opinion on yours.

How's Dembele fitting in? I've seen some of him in the MOTD highlights but not been fortunate enough to watch him week in week out. Before he left us we were starting to build around him- presume it must be different at Spurs with Bale very much the star man. Has he become popular or criticised so far?
 
When he's on form he's completely unplayable, unfortunately he' lacked consistency so far. He struggled with injuries throughout the season, and is being played in a deeper playmaker role to the one he was given at Fulham, so it's not all his fault that he's been inconsistent. Overall I'm very happy with him, he rarely loses the ball and watching him bulldoze his way through teams is a joy. He's a huge improvement on Jenas, Huddlestone et al - No Modric though, yet, and like Modric, he needs more goals.
 
He's being played out of position, the defensive responsibility doesn't suit him. Hopefully if the Paulinho rumour is true Dembele can play further up the park.
 
Great at times, at others anonymous. Not sure if it was to do with his injury that he seemed to be carrying for awhile but I think we'll see more from him next season.
 
deedub93 said:
He's being played out of position, the defensive responsibility doesn't suit him. Hopefully if the Paulinho rumour is true Dembele can play further up the park.
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Yeah, I'd like to see him get forward more, he's not great defensively but he's strong and good on the ball going forward.

I see Paulinho as similar too, although he's better defensively. Hopefully with those two alternating who tracks back we will get the best out of both.
 
Did ok but a lot of people expected him to come in and replace Modric and unfortunately Dembele isn't on that level.
 
deedub took the post right out of my fingers about playing further forward. I was about to post he could be very solid for us further up. I feel we have still to see his best,which will come so I'm fairly happy.
 
As good as what he does looks, where's it got us? does he run games...no. He dug us out of the **** once in the EL with a goal, to my mind you want a bit more than that from a CM. In his defence, the first 10 games or whatever it was before that odd hip injury, he looked very good, post injury, nowhere near it other than odd flashes here and there. I've also noticed that after drifting clear of all in his wake, he does prefer to lay off the simplest pass thats on, rather than thread one, and imo shy's away from getting into a position to shoot unless its obviously on, again it seems preferring the safe option. The effect of this at times is actually slowing down the move imo, including an extra player in the move rather than releasing a forward directly with a bit of vision, I'm not sure he has that.

If the player we saw at first shows up and can improve still, but if an equivalent player with goals came along in Jan I'd sell.

Tin hat time I suppose!
 
He's a player i've always rated. I think maybe some are being a little hasty in their judgement. He was certainly played out of his natural position for much of last season, and he never seemed to fully recover from his injury - always looked liked he was still carrying it.

If he is fully fit and given his head next season, I think he will then be able to give his best.
 
I agree he got dumped out wide a couple of times, but played out of position in a deep role? when was asked to play DM?, Sandro did that at the start, then Parker. Not sure what people mean here, and as for pushing forward? how far? If the suggestion is into Bale territory as part of a front 3or4, playing a 2 goal a season player there would seem a waste, finding an end product in and around the box is out of his comfort zone imo. I've seen no evidence whatsoever he can play there myself. Playing him and say Lennon as two of a front 4 puts the pressure for goals from the frontline back on Bale and one striker. If the suggestion is take up a similar position to how we use Dempsey, I'd rather keep Dempsey, as bad as he was at times, he popped up with some important goals in his 10. Don't care what anyone says, you're not getting that return out of Dembele.
 
I think OS's phrase "flatters to deceive" is a valid one here. Cos he really does look like he's got bags of ability, he can get around the pitch, he always looks like he wants to carry the ball forward. And yet...

How many really dangerous situations did he create last season? How many killer balls did he slot through, how many times did his run really open up an opposition defence? How many shots (never mind goals) did he even have?

I hope that our chasing of Paulinho indicates that AVB et al see him in a different role to last year. I'm sure there's loads he can offer us.

BTW - I think the earlier comment about how he's light-years ahead of Jenas, Huddlestone is a bit premature. Cos of all our recent midfielders Dembele reminds me most of Jenas - only without the goals. Only difference is that Jenas hung around for years - long enough for people to start focussing on all his faults. And yes - I was definitely one of those people.
 
lennypops said:
BTW - I think the earlier comment about how he's light-years ahead of Jenas, Huddlestone is a bit premature. Cos of all our recent midfielders Dembele reminds me most of Jenas - only without the goals. Only difference is that Jenas hung around for years - long enough for people to start focussing on all his faults. And yes - I was definitely one of those people.
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At least you don't think he's Hudd without the passing!

End product is what I'm getting at in my posts. <ok>
 
notsosmartspur said:
I agree he got dumped out wide a couple of times, but played out of position in a deep role? when was asked to play DM?, Sandro did that at the start, then Parker. Not sure what people mean here, and as for pushing forward? how far? If the suggestion is into Bale territory as part of a front 3or4, playing a 2 goal a season player there would seem a waste, finding an end product in and around the box is out of his comfort zone imo. I've seen no evidence whatsoever he can play there myself. Playing him and say Lennon as two of a front 4 puts the pressure for goals from the frontline back on Bale and one striker. If the suggestion is take up a similar position to how we use Dempsey, I'd rather keep Dempsey, as bad as he was at times, he popped up with some important goals in his 10. Don't care what anyone says, you're not getting that return out of Dembele.
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Not DM, but deeper than he would say is his preferred position. Moussa has played most of his career in a 'Van der Vaart' type of role, whereas we are playing him as a natural central midfielder. Jol was the first person to start playing Dembele in central midfield, so it's still a relatively new position for him.
 
notsosmartspur said:
At least you don't think he's Hudd without the passing!

End product is what I'm getting at in my posts. <ok>
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Hudd without the passing?! That would indeed be a problem. Especially if they weren't able to hit those sweet strikes from the outside of the box two or three times a year.

Yeah - end product. That's why Jenas springs to mind. But still hopeful regarding Dembele. At least he said himself, without prompting, that he wants to improve on last year's performances. I really think he can be a very important player for us - we've just not quite seen it yet.
 
Wandering Yid said:
Not DM, but deeper than he would say is his preferred position. Moussa has played most of his career in a 'Van der Vaart' type of role, whereas we are playing him as a natural central midfielder. Jol was the first person to start playing Dembele in central midfield, so it's still a relatively new position for him.
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Is it fair to suggest Jol may have put him there for a very good reason...no! His time at Alkmaar didn't produce much, and anyone can cscore in the Dutch league it seems.

I haven't looked too hard, but the first supposed quotes from the player himself I can find on the subject is this...

Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham have all been linked with offers for the 25-year-old, who impressed for the Cottagers last term after shifting from his usual role as a second striker to central midfield.

Dembele has also hinted at his preferred position, in midfield, "I feel more of a midfielder than striker. It is even my favourite position," he added.

Before anyone says he's not a striker, agreed, I think thats just how he described his 2nd striker role, before we get bogged down with translation. If the player himself is not happy in an advanced role, not too sure why many are suggesting we put him there.
 
notsosmartspur said:
Is it fair to suggest Jol may have put him there for a very good reason...no! His time at Alkmaar didn't produce much, and anyone can cscore in the Dutch league it seems.
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He'll never have the same scoring stats playing for AZ as he would have had at PSV, Ajax or Feyenoord though, without the same quality surrounding him - though AZ did scrape the league title in his best season for them.

I haven't looked too hard, but the first supposed quotes from the player himself I can find on the subject is this...

Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham have all been linked with offers for the 25-year-old, who impressed for the Cottagers last term after shifting from his usual role as a second striker to central midfield.

Dembele has also hinted at his preferred position, in midfield, "I feel more of a midfielder than striker. It is even my favourite position," he added.
Before anyone says he's not a striker, agreed, I think thats just how he described his 2nd striker role, before we get bogged down with translation. If the player himself is not happy in an advanced role, not too sure why many are suggesting we put him there.
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Of course Dembele would say it's his best position after playing out of his skin there for a few games, but the fact is he hasn't been playing out of his skin there recently, so perhaps its time for a rethink. The player doesn't necessarily know what is best for himself either notso - I remember when Bale was pushed up to left-wing his comments were along the lines of "It's not my natural position but I'll play there to help the team" - now you couldn't force him to play in defence.
 
He reminded me a bit of Krancjar playing out of position as playmaker at Old Trafford last year: always looking for the safe pass rather than the one that unlocks the defense. He became the focus of dissatisfaction with the change from the high-flying team last year to the less flamboyant one this year.

And yet, if you believe in numbers, Dembele's positive impact last year was fantastic: (See http://blog.squawka.com/2013/02/11/spurs-dont-lose-when-dembele-plays-fact/201302115960). With 12 games to go last year, Spurs averaged 2.5 points per game with him, .6 or something without him. Coincidence? Well, could be, but more numbers indicate his passing, tackling and dribbling were all extraordinary. (Though I have to say the 91% pass completion rate owed at least as much to unambitious passing as anything else.)

I thought he had a kind of mental and physical toughness which added a lot to our team. The last three games he's played against Man U, his team won two and drew one. He was very good at helping to control the middle of the field, and getting the ball forward without losing possession. He performed an unexciting role in a dull strategic approach very effectively.

Finally, his injury happened shortly after Sandro's, and there's no doubt he wasn't as effective afterward. The Sandro-Dembélé partnership dominated the center of the field. Without Sandro, and with some sort of chronic hip problem, he wasn't the same player, yet still seemed to have a big impact on whether we got results.
 
I think a lot of the comments I've just read come down to what I said earlier - give the guy some more time. I really don't believe he was anywhere near fully fit for a lot of last season.

As for delivering killer balls, to who? We are not currently overburdened with world class strikers making the kind of runs that invite that type of pass.
 
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