Defence

[Oliver's Army]

My worry is LJ won't see the need to get Bailey Wright back. Or if he does will try something else anyway. For Flanagan, he only seems to see the 'good' Flanagan and seems to be ok with all the mistakes as if they are somehow acceptable.

I think we are much more solid with Wright, certainly in the recent games he has played on that right hand side (RCB or RB, whichever way we look at it). Flanno has been class, I don't want to knock the lad but there were a couple of dodgy moments against Wycombe and quite a few last night. He could have carried the ball past the half way line a dozen time last night and created and extra midfielder for us but didn't look confident (or was told not to?)

 

[samwise_new]

We can't be playing Dan Neil and Embleton as the 2 CMs that's for sure.

i think dan neil escapes some criticism because he came through the ranks, granted he has a good pass in him and at times he just seems to glide past players but he is still young and raw and at times the game seems to pass him by..this is where i hoped evans would come into his own, someone to protect the back four and not feel the need to be bombing forward all the time but unfortunately he is not getting a run of games together, embelton seems to come back after injury/being dropped and puts a couple of very good shifts in then drops off in form until he looks like a waste of a shirt, he was yet another who failed to put any real effort in against lincoln.

as when mville was here, our defensive record improved dramatically iirc and he was much the same as evans as in a player who did a lot of the 'unseen work', stopping passes being made and covering runs but never really standing out, this also helped kabul and kone to develop a good partnership as it is easier to just play your game when you have less to worry about.

 

[Oliver's Army]

i think dan neil escapes some criticism because he came through the ranks, granted he has a good pass in him and at times he just seems to glide past players but he is still young and raw and at times the game seems to pass him by..this is where i hoped evans would come into his own, someone to protect the back four and not feel the need to be bombing forward all the time but unfortunately he is not getting a run of games together, embelton seems to come back after injury/being dropped and puts a couple of very good shifts in then drops off in form until he looks like a waste of a shirt, he was yet another who failed to put any real effort in against lincoln.

as when mville was here, our defensive record improved dramatically iirc and he was much the same as evans as in a player who did a lot of the 'unseen work', stopping passes being made and covering runs but never really standing out, this also helped kabul and kone to develop a good partnership as it is easier to just play your game when you have less to worry about.

They need a 'sitter'. Evans is excellent when fit but not often enough.

 

[Bank of England 2]

We seem to have won the same number of games as Rotherham

Absolutely right, but when we've got beat we've had some right tankings. Getting beat 5-1 off Arsenal was no disgrace, but 5-1 by Rotherham and 4-0 by Portsmouth are hard to take.

We've got the attacking side of our game right. I just want us to address the defensive side properly to avoid us being on the wrong end of any further scorelines like those above. As I said earlier, I don't know if its down to personnel or the way we are set up defensively, but if we can rectify the problem we'll romp to promotion.

 

[TopCat.]

Absolutely right, but when we've got beat we've had some right tankings. Getting beat 5-1 off Arsenal was no disgrace, but 5-1 by Rotherham and 4-0 by Portsmouth are hard to take.

We've got the attacking side of our game right. I just want us to address the defensive side properly to avoid us being on the wrong end of any further scorelines like those above. As I said earlier, I don't know if its down to personnel or the way we are set up defensively, but if we can rectify the problem we'll romp to promotion.

It might well be that our attacking style does not lend itself to a solid defence. We have some good performers (Doyle, Hoffmann, Cirkin) but they can't do it on their own. We have precious little cover in midfield (possibly only Gooch tracks back and Neil/Winchester offer no screening for the back 4) and will always concede goals.

you are right, when it goes badly it goes off a cliff - Tuesday could have been 4 or 5-1 in the end but I think I'd back us to outscore most teams over the course of a season with the odd blip along the way

 

[clockstander]

My worry is LJ won't see the need to get Bailey Wright back. Or if he does will try something else anyway. For Flanagan, he only seems to see the 'good' Flanagan and seems to be ok with all the mistakes as if they are somehow acceptable.

Its the same with Gooch, LJ usually takes the younger players off and re-jigs the whole team to accommodate his favourites, no matter what the evidence is, speaking of Younger what does he have to do to be given a chance..

 

[samwise_new]

Its the same with Gooch, LJ usually takes the younger players off and re-jigs the whole team to accommodate his favourites, no matter what the evidence is, speaking of Younger what does he have to do to be given a chance..

gooch does peoples heads in, he certainly looks the business at times but as mentioned so many times, his final ball/choice is dire yet i like the fact he has defenders on their toes i just wish he had more 'finesse' to his runs, one time he lays a perfect ball into the middle then runs into players the next three times, falls over appealing for a free kick at least once in the next four runs, tries a shot that inevitably hits the first man, then next go flies past two defenders as if they are not there and another perfect cross, no player is ever going to get a perfect 100% but somewhere around a 1 in 3 would be excellent and i think he has the ability to get that IF he works on when to release the ball.

younger has always stood out in the 23's and has always put a good shift in when called into the first team, strange he does not get more chances...wright, if not injured/covid, should have been on the right of defence and should stay there for the season or until better is found as he is doing a damn good job there imho.

players being played in a position that never sees them do well (gooch at right back for instance) should never be repeated yet this is one thing that infuriates the fans with LJ, he does seem to do a lot of this 'messing about' and changing players round at half time/second half and this always seems to coincide with our worst games.

 

[Sunderpitt]

Its the same with Gooch, LJ usually takes the younger players off and re-jigs the whole team to accommodate his favourites, no matter what the evidence is, speaking of Younger what does he have to do to be given a chance..

Yes I would have thought Younger and Mr X should be considered

 

[Arlyman]

gooch does peoples heads in, he certainly looks the business at times but as mentioned so many times, his final ball/choice is dire yet i like the fact he has defenders on their toes i just wish he had more 'finesse' to his runs, one time he lays a perfect ball into the middle then runs into players the next three times, falls over appealing for a free kick at least once in the next four runs, tries a shot that inevitably hits the first man, then next go flies past two defenders as if they are not there and another perfect cross, no player is ever going to get a perfect 100% but somewhere around a 1 in 3 would be excellent and i think he has the ability to get that IF he works on when to release the ball.

younger has always stood out in the 23's and has always put a good shift in when called into the first team, strange he does not get more chances...wright, if not injured/covid, should have been on the right of defence and should stay there for the season or until better is found as he is doing a damn good job there imho.

players being played in a position that never sees them do well (gooch at right back for instance) should never be repeated yet this is one thing that infuriates the fans with LJ, he does seem to do a lot of this 'messing about' and changing players round at half time/second half and this always seems to coincide with our worst games.

Agree with all this. It's like Johnson is great attacking coach but doesn't seem to have much of a clue, or even interest, in defending. He seems to view defending as something necessary to set up the next attack, without actually giving any focus to the defending part. I was one of those that thought Johnson's time was up after about the Shrewsbury game. Then we somehow beat Ipswich and then the team started picking itself due to injuries and that discovery that we need Baily Wright as right back. Johnson clearly thinks Flanagan is better than Younger else he would have been in by now, but this is the same person who picked Flanagan ahead of Sanderson until he couldn't avoid it. Gooch needs to be put higher up the field and left there. He is so involved that we are almost at the point where if Gooch plays well so do Sunderland. I think we need him in the side every week, but the the days were he gives the ball away too much are the tough ones (but I know they all did that on Tuesday )

 

[samwise_new]

Agree with all this. It's like Johnson is great attacking coach but doesn't seem to have much of a clue, or even interest, in defending. He seems to view defending as something necessary to set up the next attack, without actually giving any focus to the defending part. I was one of those that thought Johnson's time was up after about the Shrewsbury game. Then we somehow beat Ipswich and then the team started picking itself due to injuries and that discovery that we need Baily Wright as right back. Johnson clearly thinks Flanagan is better than Younger else he would have been in by now, but this is the same person who picked Flanagan ahead of Sanderson until he couldn't avoid it. Gooch needs to be put higher up the field and left there. He is so involved that we are almost at the point where if Gooch plays well so do Sunderland. I think we need him in the side every week, but the the days were he gives the ball away too much are the tough ones (but I know they all did that on Tuesday )

i could be wrong but i do seem to recall LJ saying he wanted/we would be an attacking side but it would mean we concede a good few along the way so could explain why he never seems to focus too much on the defensive side of things, maybe this 'philosophy' we keep hearing about is quite simply 'score more than them and we win'.

 

[Arlyman]

i could be wrong but i do seem to recall LJ saying he wanted/we would be an attacking side but it would mean we concede a good few along the way so could explain why he never seems to focus too much on the defensive side of things, maybe this 'philosophy' we keep hearing about is quite simply 'score more than them and we win'.

I would be ok with this if there was only one side going to finish above us this season, but if we don't tighten up there will be two. I think Johnson has earned his chance by fixing the last slump where it looked like the players had stopped, but he is playing with fire thinking that this defence is ok. (or as had been pointed out, might be enough to get a good stopper sitting in front to take the pressure off them).

 

[samwise_new]

I would be ok with this if there was only one side going to finish above this season, but if we don't tighten up there will be two. I think Johnson has earned his chance by fixing the last slump where it looked like the players had stopped, but he is playing with fire thinking that this defence is ok. (or as had been pointed out, might be enough to get a good stopper sitting in front to take the pressure off them).

others have said it is the manner of the defeats in these 'slumps' that worries them, none have been tight 1-0 affairs, usually quite heavy defeats and the team/squad seem to go from playing great attacking football to a pub team thrown together for their first ever game, i do not like having a go at players but when we know they are capable of so much better we have to ask questions about them.

evans was the lad brought in to cover the back four but with injuries he is not getting the game time he needs to get up to speed, no idea how long 'concussion protocol' will require him to miss games, as he was actually sparked out it could be longer than just a head clash would be, then he has to get back to full fitness.

 

[The Redbaron]

Rotherham 17 goals against
Wigan 20 goals against
Sunderland 32 goals against

There's the problem, unless we sort it, we are unlikely to get promoted.

Do we have a defensive coach?

Any idea of players we should/could we bring in

Fifteen against and two for in four games...take those out and the picture looks rosy. Of course there's a problem, its against those going for promotion, its only Johnson who can't see it.

Portsmouth 4
Rotherham 5
Sheffield Wednesday 3
Lincoln 3

 

[Sunderpitt]

i could be wrong but i do seem to recall LJ saying he wanted/we would be an attacking side but it would mean we concede a good few along the way so could explain why he never seems to focus too much on the defensive side of things, maybe this 'philosophy' we keep hearing about is quite simply 'score more than them and we win'.

Hmm, an old football adage as true today as its ever been.... 'You start winning by not losing ' ie clean sheets.

Its certainly fun to watch high scoring games, if you win.... if you lose not so much.

Personally I do not have a problem with a string of 1-0 grinding victories as long as we get promoted.

On the Gooch issue, he is not really a defender but can be good in attack. He has his off and on days... but for instance is he better than a Chris Maguire who could also blow hot and cold?

 

[Arlyman]

Hmm, an old football adage as true today as its ever been.... 'You start winning by not losing ' ie clean sheets.

Its certainly fun to watch high scoring games, if you win.... if you lose not so much.

Personally I do not have a problem with a string of 1-0 grinding victories as long as we get promoted.

On the Gooch issue, he is not really a defender but can be good in attack. He has his off and on days... but for instance is he better than a Chris Maguire who could also blow hot and cold?

I like Gooch much better because he works harder even when it's not coming off for him. I think he needs to stay in the side up field unless we find someone massively better in the window. Just need to hope he can get his head up an play well.

 

[samwise_new]

Hmm, an old football adage as true today as its ever been.... 'You start winning by not losing ' ie clean sheets.

Its certainly fun to watch high scoring games, if you win.... if you lose not so much.

Personally I do not have a problem with a string of 1-0 grinding victories as long as we get promoted.

On the Gooch issue, he is not really a defender but can be good in attack. He has his off and on days... but for instance is he better than a Chris Maguire who could also blow hot and cold?

i am an old fart and still see football as a simple game, all this data and stats don't make a better player and at times i think it leads to players worrying about their stats (ie: passing %) rather than taking that one chance in a game that could bring a goal, we watch the likes of man city wanting the perfect goal and at least 80% of the ball.

peter ried had his philosophy for those who remember 'keep it tight at the back and we might just nick a goal', our first promotion with him was based purely on that... i have always been a 'build from the back' type of fan and hate conceding goals far too easily so grinding out 1-0 wins would most certainly do me.

 

[monty987]

Johnson has not sorted the defence out in fact we are worse than last season. 2 late goals at Fleetwood done us, and this up and down in form is pathetic, never got started on Tuesday for some reason, back to the sidewards, backwards football from flan and Winchester, funny after winny went of we went forward more, surprise.

 

[Sunderpitt]

I think Winchester is okay at full back... not as sure as midfield.

ATM I reckon nobody, by that i mean either of the current CBs Flanagan or Doyle are that commanding in the air, nor any of our keepers, Thor tries and it may come. Wright is not bad at CB but not that great in the air. In an earlier post, the lack of playing time for Younger and Mr X is brought up. Perhaps they should be given a chance?

 

[samwise_new]

I think Winchester is okay at full back... not as sure as midfield.

ATM I reckon nobody, by that i mean either of the current CBs Flanagan or Doyle are that commanding in the air, nor any of our keepers, Thor tries and it may come. Wright is not bad at CB but not that great in the air. In an earlier post, the lack of playing time for Younger and Mr X is brought up. Perhaps they should be given a chance?

what little we saw of arby, he certainly looked like he would be a solid defender...since pre-season we have been far too easy to get crosses/balls into the area although i thought we were getting better at stopping them after the last 'blip' and obviously, other managers have noticed the same.

i don't want players who are fancy when on the ball i want two lads in defence who get their heads on the ball and get it clear or just clear their lines if it is on the deck, two lads that can use their size to make sure they get there first, playing out from the back is all well and good but we will probably never have the type of players that can do it time and again while under pressure...clear the danger, organise, then take control again.