Decision Time

[Bustino74]

I can understand how stick feels: as yesterday I logged in for the first time in a week and just couldn't believe what was going on and couldn't bring myself to post.

It's quite frankly pathetic that people can't compare horses, despite the logical impossibility of getting to an agreed conclusion. But because Mr Pooter has returned, it has become just a tiresome and annoying state of the forum that these debates have turned nasty.

On principle I am not in favour of the NOT case, but for the common good of the site I vote NOT.

 

[Steveo77]

i wasn't aware that the forum had been changing - I probably don't post enough then

I did however notice that Arkle has returned and I did wonder whether this would cause problems...
Personally I have nothing against him as he ran some good tipping contests back on 606.
It would be a shame to lose Stick though as he has clearly shown himself to be one of the most informed posters on here.

 

[Deleted 1]

I've deliberately tried not to get involved in the Arkle/ Kauto? Denman and New approach / Sea the stars threads as I know where it's going to lead.

You do a great job in trying to keep a harmonious atmosphere on here Ron and I think you will need support and co-operation from the more vocal among us (yes I hold my hands up) to continue that. In principle Nassau's spot on about post editing but I know I am trigger happy and have never had a problem with you editing my posts. I actually wish you'd edit some of my selections as well so that people can't see what a crap tipster i am but hey ho!

One thing that i did wonder was whether you could have a separate subsection for these "debates" so that anyone who doesn't want to read them won't even see it and those who enjoy it can carry on to their hearts content. Perhaps it's also an idea to have a rule that no such discussions should be allowed on the daily thread and if people keep doing it they could even be banned. I dont really like censorship but oif people are leaving the site then it might be needed. Not sure how that would work in practice because obviously there's a line - e.g. I don't think it would be wrong for someone to say "what a performance - she reminds me of Dawn run" but I think we can work through that.

 

[Galaxy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXUzOgqL3K4 WURD!

 

[SwanHills]

Really good comments by Bustino, Steveo and DanS, can't say much more than that. Sadly, it has to be a NOT from me.

(A previous comment I made on Quizzes, etc., had to be erased as I was quite wrong. Unfortunately, I did not re-check the Quiz Corner thread itself . My apologies!).

 

[Joe Lively]

Evening all, I'm not the most regular of posters on this site, mostly due to being busy with work but I enjoy reading others opinions and views on things, because, on the whole they are well reasoned, thoughtful and logical.

I mainly only contribute during the NH season, so this week when I came back after a month or so when I saw a certain poster had joined back, I knew the forum was only going to go one way in the vast majority of threads.

The question is are you going to prevent the discussion of certain, valid, topics or debates just because of one poster?

Seems a little unfair, but if thats the way its gotta go, then I vote NOT. You're doing a great job by the way Ron

 

[ROTO]

I don't really know what went on with ArkleSupreme and I have nothing personal against him but if his arrival is going to ruin this forum and get people to leave then I think a serious consideration must be made to ask him politely to leave. Also, if at all possible Ron, is there any chance you could check to see if people are operating more than one account on here and if so remove them as if its the case its going to cause unnecessary hassle.

 

[Benvenuto Cellini]

I wasnt aware this forum was going in a particular direction and none of the answers apply to me so i wont be voting. What I will say is I think people should be allowed to argue all night about which horse was better, thats what its all about, not enough of it on here if you ask me. People leaving the forum because someone else has joined should be left to leave, because its them who has the problem if they take the internet so seriously.

I think the forum is ok the way it is, if past horses debate is completely banned that would be my cue to go elsewhere, stick to the other racing forum I use which is stricter on language but would never ban a debate about horses, no matter how repetitive it may feel to some. If it ends up personal insults then ban those involved, pretty simple, a horse racing forum banning debtaes about Kauto, Denman, New Approach and Sea The Stars just seems completely absurd to me.

 

[Ron]

Don't get me wrong Joe. Debates are welcomed and are, as you say, an important part of a horse racing forum. But if it's the same old stuff being poured out every time, sometimes word for word, and it pops up in totally unrelated threads, it ceases to be a debate and I can understand people getting pissed off, especially knowing how they ended up on 606. It's not so much the debate that's likely to get censored Joe but more a case of nipping in the bud what most of us know will result from certain exchanges. If I wait until things get out of hand it's probably going to be too late and it won't be enjoyable any more.

Sometimes it is tempting to just let it go but I don't think that is what the majority want. As far as I understand it most people came here because it was a friendly forum where things could be debated freely without resorting to or suffering from abuse and/or ridicule. If I let that occur here I think we will soon lose valuable members and be left with a small cliquey bunch.

However, times and membership change and therefore it's for me to realise that maybe I could be out of touch with what members want. The purpose of this poll is to get a better idea of what the majority of members are most comfortable with. The feedback is most helpful and will have a strong bearing on how this forum should be moderated going forward.

 

[Tonka As The Sixpence]

I'm an avid reader and barely ever post on here, same as I was at the end of 606. I left there for a reason and it's rearing its ugly head again.

This forum was fine until very recently and it's gone downhill fast. The perpetrator is the issue and unfortunately, I won't be reading here until things return to the happy, knowledgeable place it was until Arkle Supreme joined. Ron does a good job here, but it's pathetic how quickly one bad apple can sour things.

 

[Reebok]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but as far as I can see Arkle Supreme has been polite and friendly since his return. I'll freely admit I didn't know of him from 606 - maybe he'd left by the time I joined. Or is it because of past "crimes" that he seems to have been villified by some?

I feel that Joe/Eddie/Boris/we Love or what ever current name he uses has been far more disruptive to the previous atmosphere. Yet he has been given a seemingly easy ride - I highly doubt that he cares one way or the other what members think, but he has certainly liven'ed up the forum. For better or worse is subjective

That said, I'm thick skinned enough to shrug off any personal comment aimed at me, but accept that some people may be upset by it.

Although I moderate 2 other forums myself, I have always believed that less moderation is better than more, - people always have a free choice to read or not.

And as previously stated, I'm happy for Ron to do the moderating any way he sees fit.

 

[Ron]

Just for info I have been moderating the Wycombe Forum since inception and I can't remember the last time I needed to effect any kind of moderation.

In a healthy forum moderation should not be necessary. The level of moderation I do is really determined by the activity on the forum. Unfortunately the level of activity here is beginning to get unhealthy and it's a balancing act working out the best way to solve it fairly.

As a matter of interest Reebok, if this situation arose on your forum(s) how would you deal with it. I'm pretty open-minded and therefore open to suggestions, openly or privately.

Cheers everyone for the helpful feedback.

 

[Joe Lively]

Sorry Reebok, not set out to be disruptive at all, and as I said previously, I rarely contribute to this forum much any more, not as much as I did on BBC606 but enjoy reading it all the same.

I do enjoy contributing to the forum when I have time or inclination to do so and having my comments agreed with or disagreed with makes not a jot of difference to me either.

Apologies that you've found me abrasive or disruptive, that was not my intention, and yes I have passed a few comments that probably weren't needed, but I was around on BBC606 when Arkle was on there, and can clearly remember the amount of good threads that were ruined by him. Not a reason to be having a go and looking for a bite, I agree, but when you've read the same old drivel for YEARS (and I'm not exagerrating!), you don't necessarily want to be reading it again.

Fully appreciate your reasoning Ron, I don't envy you one bit mate

 

[ROTO]

Sorry Reebok, not set out to be disruptive at all, and as I said previously, I rarely contribute to this forum much any more, not as much as I did on BBC606 but enjoy reading it all the same.

I do enjoy contributing to the forum when I have time or inclination to do so and having my comments agreed with or disagreed with makes not a jot of difference to me either.

Apologies that you've found me abrasive or disruptive, that was not my intention, and yes I have passed a few comments that probably weren't needed, but I was around on BBC606 when Arkle was on there, and can clearly remember the amount of good threads that were ruined by him. Not a reason to be having a go and looking for a bite, I agree, but when you've read the same old drivel for YEARS (and I'm not exagerrating!), you don't necessarily want to be reading it again.

Fully appreciate your reasoning Ron, I don't envy you one bit mate

Don't think he meant you. Think it was directed at The Master of Glesga who also goes by the aliases Joe, Boris Fenster etc.

 

[Joe Lively]

Oh right, sorry, not been on a great deal last few months, so must have misunderstood

 

[Bustino74]

Ron does a great job on here. I can't remember seeing debates that needed editing until recently. He must be fed up with this and rightly so. Yes I'm sure there were a few debates that were going nowhere and were a touch tedious, but there was no real spite in them. The problem is that there is or are correspondents who go beyond believing they are right (which they might be) and propound the belief that there is no debate to be had as to them the position is obvious (which makes one ask why they join the debates in the first place!!). These people take all the fun and enjoyment out of the forum, and its content, as suddenly their word is the only one to be listened to. Even the quizzes are a form of self promotion. As I said in August 2010 (on BBC 606) Oscar summed it up perfectly when he said ' a red rose is not selfish because it is red and a rose, it is selfish when it wants all the other flowers to be red and roses'.

I was banned from that site back in 2009 for writing a mildly satirical piece on StS. I found that pathetic and still do as I know who got the piece banned. We have lost many wonderful posters like Stick and Carrauntouhil, who memorably called a certain poster 'pooterish'. For those that don't know Mr Pooter was the central character of a wonderful book called 'The Diary of a Nobody': basically the comments of a mudane, narrow minded, self important nobody (well worth a read).

If someone is so lacking in self-awareness that they don't realise when they are becoming excessively boorish then they have no hope and nor does Ron in trying to police them. We can all be boring, we can all ride hobby horses but hopefully we can all take others seriously enough to draw back and laugh at ourselves. I really enjoy this forum. I don't always agree with Ron and others but I hope to never 'upset' anyone. Why would anyone want to do that: to what end?

Bon Courage Ron!!!

Leave you with this (you'll know who Andrew is !!!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F14761346?thread=6930092

 

[OddDog]

Bustino - thank you for so eloquently summing up my own feelings on this matter. The art of debating (and I do believe it is an art) is dependent upon all parties showing mutual respect for each other's well-reasoned and well thought-out positions. It is, upon consideration, a pretty basic human need - to discuss, debate, share one's views and thoughts, and hear those of others, in order to further one's own understanding and enlightenment. As far as I can judge, over the past, what, 4 or 5 years (?) of reading his posts, Arkle has a completely different agenda - namely, self-promotion, imposition of his beliefs on others, and this with an unyielding conviction that renders any counter-argument worthless. He will not listen, he will always insist his position is correct, he will make assertions which have no factual basis to support that position (e.g. "AoB knows that Camelot would have beaten Fame And Glory far more easily than STS did") and this is what truly kills any meaningful debate. It is in equal measures infuriating and insulting to other members of the forum and serves no purpose other than to spread ill-feeling. I think it's about time I used the "hide all posts from this user" option - I will report back on its effectiveness.

 

[Ardent1965]

Ron does a great job on here. I can't remember seeing debates that needed editing until recently. He must be fed up with this and rightly so. Yes I'm sure there were a few debates that were going nowhere and were a touch tedious, but there was no real spite in them. The problem is that there is or are correspondents who go beyond believing they are right (which they might be) and propound the belief that there is no debate to be had as to them the position is obvious (which makes one ask why they join the debates in the first place!!). These people take all the fun and enjoyment out of the forum, and its content, as suddenly their word is the only one to be listened to. Even the quizzes are a form of self promotion. As I said in August 2010 (on BBC 606) Oscar summed it up perfectly when he said ' a red rose is not selfish because it is red and a rose, it is selfish when it wants all the other flowers to be red and roses'.

I was banned from that site back in 2009 for writing a mildly satirical piece on StS. I found that pathetic and still do as I know who got the piece banned. We have lost many wonderful posters like Stick and Carrauntouhil, who memorably called a certain poster 'pooterish'. For those that don't know Mr Pooter was the central character of a wonderful book called 'The Diary of a Nobody': basically the comments of a mudane, narrow minded, self important nobody (well worth a read).

If someone is so lacking in self-awareness that they don't realise when they are becoming excessively boorish then they have no hope and nor does Ron in trying to police them. We can all be boring, we can all ride hobby horses but hopefully we can all take others seriously enough to draw back and laugh at ourselves. I really enjoy this forum. I don't always agree with Ron and others but I hope to never 'upset' anyone. Why would anyone want to do that: to what end?

Bon Courage Ron!!!

Leave you with this (you'll know who Andrew is !!!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F14761346?thread=6930092

A 5* post

 

[Chaninbar]

Ron does a great job on here. I can't remember seeing debates that needed editing until recently. He must be fed up with this and rightly so. Yes I'm sure there were a few debates that were going nowhere and were a touch tedious, but there was no real spite in them. The problem is that there is or are correspondents who go beyond believing they are right (which they might be) and propound the belief that there is no debate to be had as to them the position is obvious (which makes one ask why they join the debates in the first place!!). These people take all the fun and enjoyment out of the forum, and its content, as suddenly their word is the only one to be listened to. Even the quizzes are a form of self promotion. As I said in August 2010 (on BBC 606) Oscar summed it up perfectly when he said ' a red rose is not selfish because it is red and a rose, it is selfish when it wants all the other flowers to be red and roses'.

I was banned from that site back in 2009 for writing a mildly satirical piece on StS. I found that pathetic and still do as I know who got the piece banned. We have lost many wonderful posters like Stick and Carrauntouhil, who memorably called a certain poster 'pooterish'. For those that don't know Mr Pooter was the central character of a wonderful book called 'The Diary of a Nobody': basically the comments of a mudane, narrow minded, self important nobody (well worth a read).

If someone is so lacking in self-awareness that they don't realise when they are becoming excessively boorish then they have no hope and nor does Ron in trying to police them. We can all be boring, we can all ride hobby horses but hopefully we can all take others seriously enough to draw back and laugh at ourselves. I really enjoy this forum. I don't always agree with Ron and others but I hope to never 'upset' anyone. Why would anyone want to do that: to what end?

Bon Courage Ron!!!

Leave you with this (you'll know who Andrew is !!!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F14761346?thread=6930092

Absolutely spot on.

 

[Deleted 1]

Agree with Bustino. I'm actually going to try and be civil to everyone including the new arrival and engage in discussions without losing the plot. If the self promotion, dismissal of others' arguments and constant denigration of wonderful horses escalates and it becomes evident that it's a one way street then I think many people would have the same conclusion on action to be taken.....