Darren Robinson

[premiertiger]

I recall asking Premiertiger if NB and DR got on, his reply was something along the lines of that they wouldn't be 'exchanging Christmas cards'. I sense there was a split fairly early on in the back room/management set up. Moreover, I wonder if this spilled over to the players. I'd be interested to know if either OLM or premier tiger had heard anything about this sort of tension. Ok, I know it's history and we move on, but it might explain an awful lot.

Not really - Darren Robinson was appointed by the club rather than the manager, which is unusual with the back room staff. He was/is very close to Ehab and was always found in the Allam box/lounge on match days, and wasn't exactly shy in sharing his very opinionated views on what was good and bad at the club.

 

[juleskaren]

for DMD.
bbcburnsy - PR company denying any change in Darrren Robinson's role at City#hcafc

 

[DMD]

for DMD.
bbcburnsy - PR company denying any change in Darrren Robinson's role at City#hcafc

Cheers JulesKaren*, I got that. It was bcc's query about the club using PR company's for official statements I didn't understand. It doesn't look like an official statement nor from the club, but I don't really understand twitter so was looking for clarification on that.


*I'm being nosey but, is that your name, first and middle names or are you two people?

 

[WSTiger]

There was a thread on this some time ago. Doubt whether they will make him manager but its not beyond the realms of possibilities. There is precedent for "non players" to make a name for themselves as coaches and managers-Villas Boas springs to mind as one example. He is certainly has the paper qualifications to be able to do the job. And as I said in the original thread dont knock education and qualifications. Given the delay in appointing a new manager it would not surprise me if Darren Robinson is appointed the man.

 

[mussiesredhat]

My point was a general one in response to your original point, which came across as 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' sort of response. In terms of 'wakey wakey' I spent my professional life in broadcasting my friend and now teach it. Also, I have won and maintained an Ofcom radio broadcasting licence so I know a little bit about what I'm talking about.

I am not defending newspapers as they are able to hold a political stance, however, I will defend the broadcasters who can't. I'll begin with this, in my time in broadcasting and since (33 years), the reporting of a story or not depends upon how accurate/authentic the sources are and if they can be corroborated. If not, they say nothing until they can be. If there's any doubt and it is speculation they can say it but must source that speculation. I have seen some ferocious arguments between senior broadcast management and broadcast journalists over the smallest of details. In the end, senior editors are the most cautious of folks. If anyone really thinks that any senior broadcast journalist/editor or BBC Managing - editor/IR Programme director would risk 1) a massive fine from Ofcom, 2) censure from Ofcom or worse still 3) demotion/loss of post then frankly they're mad. I might remind you that one D-G of the BBC fell on his sword over a detail. I could give you a shed load of examples and a clearer articulation of broadcasting/media law and would be happy to do so via a PM, if you wish. However, my point is that they get it wrong at times, who doesn't, and I'm as critical as anyone with the likes of G who tries to wind people up in a superficial way, but 'they' as in broadcasters don't just 'generally print or broadcast what they're told' or make up news. That's just plain wrong/urban myth I'm afraid...

Cheers

as a former small time spin doctor, i d argue from experience that they definitely do print rubbish if they need to fill pages and/or help create a wave of 'news' for their own commercial means! Advertisers are king, not journalists. "Power Without Responsibility" by Schlesinger (I think) is a classic text from my days of Academia, if you still use it as part of the curriculum.

 

[DMD]

as a former small time spin doctor, i d argue from experience that they definitely do print rubbish if they need to fill pages and/or help create a wave of 'news' for their own commercial means! Advertisers are king, not journalists. "Power Without Responsibility" by Schlesinger (I think) is a classic text from my days of Academia, if you still use it as part of the curriculum.

There are also tried and tested methods of using facts in such a way at the end article bares no resemblance to the events that occurred.

It's nothing new. Didn't they use to call it 'yellow press' in the 1800's when they discovered that if an editor can make his readers angry enough, they'll write half the paper for him.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

Cheers JulesKaren*, I got that. It was bcc's query about the club using PR company's for official statements I didn't understand. It doesn't look like an official statement nor from the club, but I don't really understand twitter so was looking for clarification on that.


*I'm being nosey but, is that your name, first and middle names or are you two people?

The fact that Burnsy is even approaching a PR company rather than go through the club's media is what I menat. That should not happen. Why is he contacting them? I'm assuming that's what he has been told to do and therefore that begs questions about the role this company has when there is an existing media team at the club. I appreciate this might not seem a big deal to anyone who hasnt worked in the industry but it is massive.

 

[mussiesredhat]

There are also tried and tested methods of using facts in such a way at the end article bares no resemblance to the events that occurred.

It's nothing new. Didn't they use to call it 'yellow press' in the 1800's when they discovered that if an editor can make his readers angry enough, they'll write half the paper for him.

Maybe Mr LincolnTiger's view as an obvious experienced journalist and subsequent teacher of the art, who has never really taken such blinkers off, is based on the traditional newsroom opinion of what they think 'news' to be. Mine is perhaps more of a social comment from a reader, viewer or listener perspective looking on what we are duped into believing news to be - ie NEWS. More often, in my more limited experience, it pre-planned sometimes days, weeks or months ahead, or indeed alternatively a knee jerk reaction to a 'hole in the page', but ultimately no more than a means of attracting advertisers and remaining commercially viable.

 

[DMD]

The fact that Burnsy is even approaching a PR company rather than go through the club's media is what I menat. That should not happen. Why is he contacting them? I'm assuming that's what he has been told to do and therefore that begs questions about the role this company has when there is an existing media team at the club. I appreciate this might not seem a big deal to anyone who hasnt worked in the industry but it is massive.

So it wasn't an official statement then, just Burnsey fishing in whatever water he could and passing on a comment. Whose PR was it? City's, Allams or Robinsons?

 

[Lincoln Tiger]

We are coming at this from slightly different angles. My guess is that you were in the print industry - yes? Let me just say (as former broadcast documentary/drama and music producer) that I don't have a great deal of time for journalists at best, but for very different reasons than you. I'm sick of feckin news journalism at times dominating the BBC's output.

Advertisers are not part of the beeb's output of course (though the corporation is not adverse - as you'll know - to using PR as much as anyone else when it suits!) My point was that editorially the BBC journo's do not make it up. If they were caught they would be finished. I have a brother currently at BBC RH and believe me it is as strict a policy as it was in my day - arguably even more so due to compliance. About 4-5 years ago, my local IR station in Lincoln carried a piece about train delays/strike and the journo mistook Central Trains for the Central Line (Tube) and the eejit was sacked as a result. My point was purely about broadcast news output which includes sport. The other dribbly shoite in talks/phone-in's isn't really journalism in my book and in that format and in some senses they get away with murder! (e.g. ...saying just to play devil's advocate for a minute etc)

If it was Schlesinger that's an old text these days (it was 'Putting Reality Together', written in 1979 and my edition is 87). 'Power Without Responsibility' was by James Curran and Jean Seaton (1997) is this the text you meant? Again still useful though now a bit dated! Jean Seaton is currently writing the latest volume on the History of British Broadcasting! I'm co-writing a book about R2 and when I covered the Jeremy Vine show the compliance and journalistic accuracy issues were studiously followed by the producer Phil Jones. Though to be fair to you, that show is like a radio version of the Daily Mail home counties/hang em and flog em etc...anyway I'm rambling now and in my 100th post...

Cheers
LT

 

[DMD]

Lincoln, what's the BBC's logic with the way they split the regions?

I know we're far from alone in thinking we're clumped with an area we've no connection with other than a similar language.

 

[Lincoln Tiger]

Maybe Mr LincolnTiger's view as an obvious experienced journalist and subsequent teacher of the art, who has never really taken such blinkers off, is based on the traditional newsroom opinion of what they think 'news' to be. Mine is perhaps more of a social comment from a reader, viewer or listener perspective looking on what we are duped into believing news to be - ie NEWS. More often, in my more limited experience, it pre-planned sometimes days, weeks or months ahead, or indeed alternatively a knee jerk reaction to a 'hole in the page', but ultimately no more than a means of attracting advertisers and remaining commercially viable.

No need to be sarky, and read my follow up. Let's keep it friendly shall we? Just pointing out an important detail and difference.

Best wishes
LT

 

[Lincoln Tiger]

Lincoln, what's the BBC's logic with the way they split the regions?

I know we're far from alone in thinking we're clumped with an area we've no connection with other than a similar language.

A really good question. Even more bizarre is that fact that editorially the TV region is Look North, but for Lincoln the radio region is East Midlands and takes the weekend radio news output after 2.00pm from Nottingham. BBC RH is on DAB, BBC Lincolnshire isn't. There's a number of reasons. 1) It was to do with cost cutting and sharing programmes 2) geographically speaking it was part to do with where the transmitters are/distribution multiplex systems for digital broadcasting . The decision was taken in London where I still get the feeling everything above Watford Gap is the North.

The audience research also suggested that folks in Hull didn't feel part of the Leeds output (as in the old Look North). They saw Humberside as being connected to the old Lincolnshire as much as to East Yorkshire and just pushed out the boundaries. They've tried hard with it, but coming from Hull and living in Lincoln for 15 years we are talking chalk and cheese here.

Edit: Out of interest, I might add that they did this with the west midlands and the west country until the advent of local radio (so for some 40 years) they didn't like either, but it was done for transmitter/distribution reasons and it is also one of the reasons why we have 'The Archers'!

 

[juleskaren]

Cheers JulesKaren*, I got that. It was bcc's query about the club using PR company's for official statements I didn't understand. It doesn't look like an official statement nor from the club, but I don't really understand twitter so was looking for clarification on that.


*I'm being nosey but, is that your name, first and middle names or are you two people?

First and middle name.
I think it is the PR company the Allam's use, they have been mentioned before.

 

[DMD]

A really good question. Even more bizarre is that fact that editorially the TV region is Look North, but for Lincoln the radio region is East Midlands and takes the weekend radio news output after 2.00pm from Nottingham. BBC RH is on DAB, BBC Lincolnshire isn't. There's a number of reasons. 1) It was to do with cost cutting and sharing programmes 2) geographically speaking it was part to do with where the transmitters are/distribution multiplex systems for digital broadcasting . The decision was taken in London where I still get the feeling everything above Watford Gap is the North.

The audience research also suggested that folks in Hull didn't feel part of the Leeds output (as in the old Look North). They saw Humberside as being connected to the old Lincolnshire as much as to East Yorkshire and just pushed out the boundaries. They've tried hard with it, but coming from Hull and living in Lincoln for 15 years we are talking chalk and cheese here.

I've seen the argument about Leeds before, although the 'research' left an awful lot to be desired if it's the same one. They even claimed 'research' showed people here wanted to be linked to Grimsby, although despite many requests, they couldn't find the research and ended up denying it.

The link to the South bank's a nonsense as the choice clearly isn't 'Leeds or Lincoln' the old East Riding probably covers a decent number without Grimsby and Scunny, who I know would much prefer to be linked with Lincoln's coverage.

When you follow the trail of dissatisfaction around the Country, it's hard not to think that the knock on effect of getting the first one right would probably make more people happy than the peculiar status quo that clogs up their complaints procedure to the extent they don't reply.

A very poor and pompous approach from our national media outlet, showing a disregard for local culture.

 

[Lincoln Tiger]

Fair point DMD, I would agree. I've seen a fair bit of research (internal BBC stuff) and to be honest I've never been convinced either. To be fair, though I don't and can't speak for anyone specifically, I know of 2-3 managing-editors that don't like it either and have privately said so. I used to be involved with a BBC forum and the locals in Lincoln hated the whole thing it as much as anyone (i.e. Hull bias etc on the TV - which is nonsense) and yet the same folks had no complaints about the Nottingham slant on the late nights/weekend news or the sharing of programmes with Humberside on an evening or Saturday. It doesn't make sense on lots of levels! Grimsby and Scunthorpe would be worse off on the footy front if editorially they came over to BBC Lincolnshire! To be honest, in many ways, they don't have a great deal in common with Lincoln either!

Oddly, the only way you can hear BBC RLincs on dab is when they share the Saturday Gold type show before the football coverage and that's in Hull! Lincs FM own the multiplex for Lincolnshire and the BBC apparently can't afford to rent the space (or so I'm told). So they have only FM/AM and the Imps and the Boston United lot share those. It's a mess... pisspoor without a doubt!

 

[mplooney]

They have just broadcast on Humberside that the Allams PR company are saying that he hasn't been promoted or moved to another position at the club

 

[westtiger]

They have just broadcast on Humberside that the Allams PR company are saying that he hasn't been promoted or moved to another position at the club

Looking on the website the job title has always been performance manager but if he didn't get on with NB then he probably wasn't doing this job. He now will be under the next manager, which probably means it will be Billy Davies

 

[Craigo]

They have just broadcast on Humberside that the Allams PR company are saying that he hasn't been promoted or moved to another position at the club

This has already been mentioned, but is it me or does anyone else get the impression that the Allams PR company keep a microscopic watch on this forum?

 

[ImperialTiger]

If he does as well as that other physio from south of the river then fair play to him

[video=youtube;0etQ744o2O4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0etQ744o2O4[/video]