1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Danny Graham vs. Brady's penalty

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by Tubby AKA Ableton (Mwah), Sep 29, 2013.

  1. tigerscanada

    tigerscanada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    25,739
    Likes Received:
    10,652
    How do you know that he is not doing just that ? Perhaps Brady reads up on the tendency of each goalie he faces i.e. which way is he most likely to dive, watches the keeper's body language as he (Brady) runs up to the ball and reduces his margin of error (i.e. does not go for the lower percentage placement option into the lower corner near a given post) as he evaluates the keeper's move in that split second before impact ?
    Many of the worlds best penalty-takers have or did have that capability - Zidane, Balotelli, Shearer, Del Piero, Lampard, Lambert and last but not least, Le Tissier.

    I don't think you should start worrying about Brady until he has missed 2 in a row, and even then, if he scores 5-6 in succession, and misses his next 2, he would still have a superb success ratio and should not be released from the responsibility until he misses 3 in a row. Confidence is a key factor in penalty taking - the advantage is with a successful PK taker, which has always unnerved the next goaiie he faces, increasing that advantage. Good managers are very aware of this fact, as the players mentioned above well know. Old cliche I know - if it aint broke.........Graham Alexander thrived on that....
     
    #41
  2. City1904

    City1904 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,723
    Likes Received:
    1,484
    If you watch the penalty you even see Brady's easy go the other way clearly playing with the keeper.

    If he wasn't scoring them time and time again in practice he wouldn't be taking them so clearly he can't be half bad at them.
     
    #42
  3. Fez

    Fez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,622
    Likes Received:
    5,161
    I must have misunderstood you both because it does read like you are criticising his penalty taking and his lack of technique.

    Do you seriously believe that the penalty against West Ham was not well struck? The GK went the wrong way, Brady pretty well smashed it into the net with loads of room, not to mention safety and never broke pace to celebrate - watch it (above), it's pretty damn clear.

    I would say that the Norwich penalty, was of a different style; he struck it with less force but more precision, he placed it into the very area of the goal that you want and, of course, once again he had the GK going the wrong way. Watch it below. Two different styles, two goals, this makes him a very good penalty taker and one to be respected as he is difficult to read, not a lucky one. <ok>

    [video=youtube;cLnFdUMltU0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLnFdUMltU0&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
     
    #43
  4. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    27,066
    Likes Received:
    17,978
    Graham Alexander kicked it very hard into the corner of the goal. It's incredibly simple.

    They were both slightly towards the corner but very soft. Hardly like the ones Lambert or Alexander became famous for scoring. If he keeps getting it right every time we can't have any complaints, but I have to think watching those penalties that eventually a keeper will dive the right way and it'll be saved and described as a 'tame' penalty. It's funny the way people's views on a penalty change completely depending on which way the keeper dived. If an England player hit it like either of those Brady ones at a major tournament and it was saved he'd be a disgrace to the country, embarrassment, etc.
     
    #44
  5. Fez

    Fez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    13,622
    Likes Received:
    5,161
    I'm not sure we are looking at the same penalties; WH much more powerful than NOR. Do you really believe it is incredibly simple - are you / have you been a player? I'm genuinely confused, PLT, as you over complicated his penalties and now you are over simplifying them. If it were that easy there would be little point in penalty shoot-outs at the top level.
     
    #45
  6. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    27,066
    Likes Received:
    17,978
    Pretty much any player could place the ball gently into one side under no pressure. Part of the problem is of course taking the penalty under pressure and that must increase massively in shoot-outs at a major tournament. Any player should be able to score roughly 50% of his penalties simply by placing it to one side and not missing; the keeper will go the wrong way about half the time. If you want to increase that percentage, like the aforementioned experts of the penalty kick did/do, you need to be accurate and/or powerful to the extent that the keeper can't save it even if he guesses right.

    As I've already said, Brady is either doing something right in terms of knowing where the keeper will go or reacting to his initial movements or he's scoring through luck, he certainly isn't beating the keeper through the strike itself. Both of those penalties would have been absolutely piss-easy saves if the keeper went the right way. Brady will continue to take penalties if we get any more and I'm happy for him to do so and give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll be the first one to complain though if he eventually misses one as a result of a keeper reacting to his soft shot just slightly to one side. I believe in a team of 11 players you should have one capable of beating a keeper from 12 yards. Not relying on the keeper going the wrong way (any of the 11 could do that) but actually beating him.
     
    #46
  7. tigerscanada

    tigerscanada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    25,739
    Likes Received:
    10,652
    Far from it....they (Alexander& Lambert) are just bloody good & consistently accurate with their chosen methods.

    In many of the other examples I gave, there was/is much more variation in the techniques used by the PK takers, suggesting more acuity on their behalf in assessing the goalkeepers actions at the moment in question. I believe Brady falls into the latter category. Early days, but he may well be a master at the trade. As I said, and many others have suggested, if it aint broke, don't fix it, and worry about it only when it becomes an issue.....
     
    #47
  8. tigerscanada

    tigerscanada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    25,739
    Likes Received:
    10,652
    With conjecture like that, it is to be hoped you are never selected for jury duty !
    Unless of course, Brady actually told you that was his intention......
     
    #48
  9. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    111,663
    Likes Received:
    75,997
    What a pointless debate, Brady got two penalties and scored them both, anyone who thinks it's easy to put one past Jussi is mental, it was a job well done.
     
    #49
  10. petersaxton

    petersaxton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    24,665
    Likes Received:
    14,112
    The 3 or 4 yards was nonsense! It was about 2 yards to the keepers left.
     
    #50

  11. AKCJ

    AKCJ Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    21,874
    Likes Received:
    2,934
    Thought i'd pop over and get your reaction to Brady's dive.
     
    #51
  12. Hull City AFC (HCHKR)

    Hull City AFC (HCHKR) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    734
    Just like Knockaert's in the Play-Offs last season?
     
    #52
  13. tigerscanada

    tigerscanada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    25,739
    Likes Received:
    10,652
    #53
  14. tigerscanada

    tigerscanada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    25,739
    Likes Received:
    10,652
    Was the keeper moving towards or away from the ball at the time the ball crossed the line may I ask ?
     
    #54
  15. DJBlackandamberarmy(No4)

    DJBlackandamberarmy(No4) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    7,075
    don't come on as much as I used too, thought id have a look what was going on..
    we are debating whether our 100 % penalty taker ( including Ipswich last year) should be taking penalties, good to see things are ticking over nicely, ill pop back again in a few weeks to check <laugh>
     
    #55
  16. petersaxton

    petersaxton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    24,665
    Likes Received:
    14,112
    I think this is a better point. It's whether he's performing well taking the penalties in training. I'm not sure how much some clubs practice dead ball situations given the disasters we see with free kicks and corners.

    I mentioned the "Brady tap". I agree that the Brady penalty against West Ham was hit powerfully yet not far from the goalkeeper but the penalty against Norwich was a tap and wasn't very far from the goalkeeper. Brady telegraphed where the penalty was going yet the goalkeeper still dived the wrong way.

    To all those who say that Brady shouldn't reconsider his penalty taking because he's scored two in two I would point out that the low statistical population means you shouldn't rely on the data. However you can effectively consider Brady's technique because there are less variables. Brady is left footed. This means it is easier to disguise a shot to the right than it is a shot to the left. Maybe the classic to remember was the Proschwitz penalty against Cardiff. He took a right footed penalty to the right and telegraphed it and placed it a comfortable height for the goalkeeper. Even more amazingly it was Bruce's decision that Proschwitz should take the penalty!

    Some people swear by ProZone statistics but just look at players tapping the ball to each other when they are a yard apart. This is for the benefit of ProZone.

    Dead ball situations can mean the difference between relegation and safety quite easily and I think a lot of thought and practice should go into them. It's certainly better than only using statistics such as "wait until he misses three on the trot" without considering the actual technique of taking a penalty.
     
    #56
  17. petersaxton

    petersaxton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    24,665
    Likes Received:
    14,112
    He was moving away from the ball when the ball crossed the line. What's the relevance of that bit of information?
     
    #57
  18. Hank Scorpio

    Hank Scorpio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    9,449
    Likes Received:
    565
    Bleedin' hell, there was lless whinging when Proschwitz missed at the back end of last season, and nearly cost us promotion.
     
    #58
  19. Summerof69

    Summerof69 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,920
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    You're obviously well versed in the art of dead horse flogging. Unless you have access to Brady's thought processes, you have no more idea than I do whether he is consciously aware that the goalkeeper has committed to going one way before he decides to go the other. Therefore, you also have no idea whether his technique is flawed or not and as with the rest of us, will have to wait and see what he does with the next one he takes. For all any of us know, he may try something different each time.

    Just be grateful he has scored the two he has taken so far and helped to secure us 6 precious points already.
     
    #59
  20. petersaxton

    petersaxton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    24,665
    Likes Received:
    14,112
    I suppose it's like flooding. In a high risk area some people prefer to wait until the water causes a lot of damage before regretting not doing anything whereas other people anticipate the flooding and take measures to minimise the damage.
     
    #60

Share This Page