Danny Fox's positioning

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fatletiss

fatletiss

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
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Northampton
I read constantly on here that Danny Fox's positioning is terrible. I watch all our home games and some away games, but am a little baffled by this observation. Is it really his positioning, or his reluctance to close a wide player down quickly? I watched the United game back on the television to look at this after reading more comments about his positioning and I have to say (having played left back for a few seasons), that his starting position isn't too bad. When the ball is on the opposite side to him, he seemed tucked inside, level with the nearest CB, ready to cover behind them if necessary. I think this is good positioning.

I did observe though, that when the ball is switched wide to his side, that he remains level with the CB and doesn't close down the wide player. He did it so often that I wonder if he has been told not to get too tight and maybe he is over playing that instruction.

In the games we have played so far, I think he has been ok; not good, but not disasterous. Against United, he definately gave Valencia way too much space and needed to close him down quicker.

So, I am just asking whether or not his positioning IS bad, or whether he just gives the wide man too much space when the ball is switched to his side? I think if Nigel could get him to close down quicker, he would show a huge improvement and stop us getting so many crosses from that side.

It would be nice if this could be debated without a slagging off of the Saints player.
 
I think he tucks himself insode far too often and doesn't adjust quickly enough with the ball being pushed wide down his flank. Several times Valencia had acres of space down the wing, and Fox left it far too long to close him down - only starting to run out once the ball was just about to be crossed. Not getting in nearly quickly enough to block the cross or put off the winger, however committed enough to trying in vain to chase it down that he takes himself far from any opportunity to challenge for the cross, effectively rendering his role in the entire play worthless.
 
Mr. Nice said:
I think he tucks himself insode far too often and doesn't adjust quickly enough with the ball being pushed wide down his flank. Several times Valencia had acres of space down the wing, and Fox left it far too long to close him down - only starting to run out once the ball was just about to be crossed. Not getting in nearly quickly enough to block the cross or put off the winger, however committed enough to trying in vain to chase it down that he takes himself far from any opportunity to challenge for the cross, effectively rendering his role in the entire play worthless.
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That's my view too. So, do you think that if that part of his game was improved, he'd get less flack?
 
Mr. Nice said:
I think he tucks himself insode far too often and doesn't adjust quickly enough with the ball being pushed wide down his flank. Several times Valencia had acres of space down the wing, and Fox left it far too long to close him down - only starting to run out once the ball was just about to be crossed. Not getting in nearly quickly enough to block the cross or put off the winger, however committed enough to trying in vain to chase it down that he takes himself far from any opportunity to challenge for the cross, effectively rendering his role in the entire play worthless.
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I think that sums it up exactly. If we can see that then I am sure NA can and hopefully the problem will be solved shortly?
 
That is the best answer.

What I don't like is how he has been criticised after three games, two of which were against two of the best teams in the world.
 
I have two main criticisms of Fox. 1] His short passing is poor. It is too vague. It is not enough just to pass to a teammate. One has to contextualise the pass, by either playing it to feet, in front of, etc... when necessary. This is the PL, after all. 2] His concentration, it's inconsistent, imo. He switches off, and that's probably an appropriate reason for why is positioning is sometimes poor, as some people have said [I wouldn't argue] and his passing is vague. Yes, he whips over a super cross and can deliver a cracking corner kick, but so can others. I am still yet to be convinced by him, but will support him in the team. He's meant to be quick, yet I have seen Championship wingers skin him quite easily.
 
It's good to see someone who understands positioning and doesn't expect Fox to be touch tight to the winger all the time. I agree with you when you watch the man united game back it is fairly clear to see that the whole back four have been told to keep it narrow when utd were attacking. Fox's main problem in my opinion is the speed in which he gets out to his man when the ball does go out to the wide man. This gives the opposition time and space to deliver dangerous balls in to the box. We have already been done on this several times this season.
 
Compared with Harding, Fox's positioning is superior. Like TheSecondStain my main concern is hos ball reyention skills. Even last year I would often watch Saints win possession play it out wide to Fox who wiuld loft it hopefully forward,often unsuccessfully.Retention of the ball is key in the Prem & in Adkins' philosophy,however I can think of few excellent fullbacks in this country.
 
I think you are probably right that he has been told, or is generally reluctant, to go chasing down wingers in possession. The problem being that if he gets it wrong, it's either going to be a free kick and yellow card, or Valencia is going to have a free run into the penalty area with RVP sniffing. We've played last years top two, and after Saturday top three, and I would be a bit reluctant to start judging individuals on how they have done so far (good or bad). So for people who are still concerned I would say give him another five games and see how you feel then. Also I thought he had 40 consistently good games last year and that is really what it is all about. So patience :)
 
To be fair, can many left backs match Valencia's pace? If the back four were all narrow, is it now the responsiblity of one of the CMs to cover in the full back position or the LMs? Maybe some uncertaintly on the teams part. I don't think he is as bad as he is made to be, but does need to improve his game, sometimes he scares me with his decision making, but then others he can deliver a cracking ball. Think he will be replaced next summer, but is good enough for the prem. That being said he cannot rely on his set pieces for much longer, as many more talented players offer just as good a delivery.
 
He just lacks the pace to keep up with the likes of Valencia. So his positioning appears poor because of that. To be honest I'm not exactly convinced about him either but I do think he gets a lot of unjustified criticism (and some justified criticism!)
 
I think it's clear the issue in both Manchester games was tactical issue rather than an issue with Fox's positioning. The back four had obviously been told to keep it very narrow, to stop us being played through with both of those teams can do with ease, clearly and probably rightfully so, Nigel decided we were better off defending balls into the box than leaving gaps in our defense which the likes of Tevez, Nasri, Silva, Toure, Van Persie, Kagawa etc. could play through. For Clyne it was no issue because his pace allowed him to get out to the wingers every time, Fox does not have that luxury.

That being said, I'm still worried about him in general, his passing has been poor, and I think the lack of attacking freedom he had last season has lead to him being a bit nervy and under-pressure. Then of course his assist to Nasri basically gifted the game to City.

But I will wait to condemn his positioning until we play a few more average teams where we wont be quite so pinned-back in two narrow lines and he can play a more natural game.
 
pass the football said:
He just lacks the pace to keep up with the likes of Valencia. So his positioning appears poor because of that. To be honest I'm not exactly convinced about him either but I do think he gets a lot of unjustified criticism (and some justified criticism!)
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This. Given his lack of pace, skills, and Saints general quality in the back four, I think his positioning is correct. Allowing players to beat you on the flanks is preferable to letting them cut inside. Also, Clyne is decent on the right so when teams attack they will go against the weakest part of the defense which makes Fox look worse than he is, especially since he also suffers from lack of support from the midfield. There isn't anyone on the Saints currently who can stop a speedy winger.

To the extent that he is criticized for poor positional sense or laziness on defense, I think those criticisms are unjustified. But I think it is fair to question why the Saints have to settle for the lesser of two evils (letting a player go down the flanks vs attacking through the middle) instead of just having a competent player who doesn't have to make that choice.

I just don't think the defense is up to snuff. It's not all on Fox, but he is still a part of the defense and Saints need to improve there. Replacing Fox with a better left back is one way to do it.
 
Thanks people. It would seem from these comments that it is not his starting position that is wrong, but either the tactics given to him so far or him not reacting quickly enough to close a wide man down.

I'm pleased. I started this because I felt too many "sheep" were saying the same thing. He has misplaced a few short passes this season as pointed out by TSS.

Hopefully the next few games will correct this.
 
fatletiss said:
I read constantly on here that Danny Fox's positioning is terrible. I watch all our home games and some away games, but am a little baffled by this observation. Is it really his positioning, or his reluctance to close a wide player down quickly? I watched the United game back on the television to look at this after reading more comments about his positioning and I have to say (having played left back for a few seasons), that his starting position isn't too bad. When the ball is on the opposite side to him, he seemed tucked inside, level with the nearest CB, ready to cover behind them if necessary. I think this is good positioning.

I did observe though, that when the ball is switched wide to his side, that he remains level with the CB and doesn't close down the wide player. He did it so often that I wonder if he has been told not to get too tight and maybe he is over playing that instruction.

In the games we have played so far, I think he has been ok; not good, but not disasterous. Against United, he definately gave Valencia way too much space and needed to close him down quicker.

So, I am just asking whether or not his positioning IS bad, or whether he just gives the wide man too much space when the ball is switched to his side? I think if Nigel could get him to close down quicker, he would show a huge improvement and stop us getting so many crosses from that side.

It would be nice if this could be debated without a slagging off of the Saints player.
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I think the issue is his decision making when the ball comes his way not his starting position. It's easy when not under pressure (particularly when it's your full time job) to make sure you are in the right place the issue is when a decision needs to be made in the heat of the moment - there was one example against Utd where he went charging out like a headless chicken, got picked off easily and we were on the back foot. In his defence though this is a criticism of decision making at the very highest level. When I saw him play over the last two years incl tv prob 25 times I commented to friends that he was a good left back and whilst he hasn't become a bad player overnight he did look out of his depth against Utd and City (only saw Wigan highlights so can't fairly comment on that).
 
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