dani ayala

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
YellowLittle said:
Sorry Rob, it is the question.

You obviously have not read my posts. As I have been saying he will challenging for a first team place more so than Ward imo. I even said it on the same line as my post. So stop being pedantic and going through posts with a fine tooth comb and actually read and assess it as a whole. <ok>

Also I may add I don't think Ayala is far off Bennett and could well easily challenge his place.
Click to expand...

To start with a bit of pedantry: I am robbie not rob. I'm sure Canary Rob would prefer that no confusion arose!

Secondly, I had read your whole post. But in the context of the debate about Ayala, it is not enough that he "challenge for selection". He needs to play. If you think that Ayala should be first choice rather than Bennett, or that in your opinion he will quickly displace Bennett and become first choice for this season, just say so. If you think that Ayala should be kept irrespective of how many games he actually plays, just say that too. <ok>
 
YellowLittle said:
Seriously Superman who do you think is better Ward or Ayala. That's what my argument is. I think Ayala would be challenging more for a first team place this season. More comfortable on the ball and I think more mobile.

I don't particularly rate Ward, I don't think he is terrible but I think he is not good enough for our squad. I like him for helping us in the Championship, don't get me wrong. No room for sentiment though. I think he can be rash in decisions and too slow.

The thing that wound me up was the "dear oh dear". Maybe it wasn't meant the way I interpreted it. Just explaining why this thread probably escalated into an argument. It just seems you can't criticize a Norwich player without people jumping down your throat and in this case with an arrogant and condascending tone.

This debate will be settled on the pitch this season no doubt, but I do think letting Ayala out is a strange one especially when it's not a strong position. I think Hughton might have another centre half up his mind.
Click to expand...

i don't think there is much to choose between them. at this moment in time i think ward is the better defender but ayala is clearly a talented lad. his flaws unfortunately are his grappling of attackers which could prove very costly and his injury record which is far more of a concern. ward has drawbacks too but his experience is more important to us. long term i have no doubt in my mind that ayala will be a much better player than ward, much much better, but right now i don't think he is and its his injury record which means he's likely to get loaned, not his ability. as for the dear oh dear, i feel it was interpreted wrong as i was effectively shaking my head in disbelief, but sorry if it caused offence <ok>
 
1950canary said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the arguement against Supers is that Ayala should not go out on loan, Ward should be dumped and a new central defender bought - preferably Curtis Davies. Obviously neither Turner or Davies will be bought to warm the bench so that will leave Bennett and Ayala as bench warmers for the next 2 or 3 years apart from times of injury or suspension - great development of young talent!!! Surely we have bought Turner to help develop Bennett and Ayala. I don't disagree that Ayala should be kept here but with Turner, Ayala and Bennett here why do we need to spend money replacing Ward? I would be more concerned if we let Ayala go and bought Davies as this would marginalise Ayala and Bennett. Tierney is the only recognised left back on the books but if he is out long term with injury who steps in? Lappin would be OK for the odd game but an extended run? - No way!! Surely we need other Players in other positions before buying any more central defenders. As for the suggestion that some supporters don't need a player to pick on - I find that laughable. I have been going to Carrow Road since 1950 and it has always been like that - some supporters just can't cope unless they have a player to pick on. At the moment it is Ward but before that it was Ruddy and Russell Martin. It has always been like that at every Club and always will be. In my opinion - keep Ayala ( to bring him on ) and Ward ( to be 4th choice ).
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I would do. It's been done, 12 months a go by a certain Sir Alex Ferguson:

Sold John O'Shea and Wes Brown.

Bought in Chris Smalling and Phil Jones.

Jones, Smalling and Jonny Evans than played behind Vidic and Ferdinand.

12 months later Jonny Evans had his best season yet and Smalling and Jones were selected for England.

The only difference is we would have to buy someone who the young ones can learn from.

I agree Left back is priority though, I am not disputing that at all.

I don't criticise any player at the ground, this is a forum. Our way to channel OUR opinions. Just a fair amount of people get a bit precious if people disagree with certain people.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
i don't think there is much to choose between them. at this moment in time i think ward is the better defender but ayala is clearly a talented lad. his flaws unfortunately are his grappling of attackers which could prove very costly and his injury record which is far more of a concern. ward has drawbacks too but his experience is more important to us. long term i have no doubt in my mind that ayala will be a much better player than ward, much much better, but right now i don't think he is and its his injury record which means he's likely to get loaned, not his ability. as for the dear oh dear, i feel it was interpreted wrong as i was effectively shaking my head in disbelief, but sorry if it caused offence <ok>
Click to expand...

The thing is I feel Ayala will learn to improve his flaws if he is looking up to a accomplished Premier League defender rather than going out on loan to Championship.

Look at Man United last season Smalling, Jones and Evans playing behind Vidic and Ferdinand. All 3 probably had their best season yet. I don't think they would have improved as much if they went out on loan.
 
I said Ward isn't good enough to start, happy if he is 4th choice and you replied:

Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
i think thats the point i'm making though! he's fourth choice, not first!!
Click to expand...

Then others continued the argument about why have a player content picking up wages without playing and you said:

Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
you're totally missing the point! ward is more than capable of gaining a place in that team. indeed, i wouldn't be surprised to see him start the season.
Click to expand...

Which one is it?

He's not good enough end of. It isn't a witch hunt, it isn't boo boys in the stadium. He simply isn't good enough and himself and Barnett should be shipped out with Turner, Bennett, Ayala and another CB competing for the 2 positions. If we have Barnett and Ward on the bench there is no competition for Bennett and Turner which leads to complacency and poor performances.

If we can get this apparent 1.5m you think Ward is worth (LOL) then get rid and bring in Davies for the 3.5 quoted.
 
My problem with Ward and Barnett is they don't look comfortable on the ball, error prone and Wards case too slow. At this level it's about cutting out the mistakes with lead to goals I think these guys will get us slaughtered. Don't get me wrong they are great at Championship level but in this league I don't feel confident having them as backup, I'd rather have a cultured centre back like Ayala and a steady player like Russell Martin as our back up centre backs.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't actually think Ayala is as good as some people seem to think he is? Don't get me wrong I thought he looked ok when he had a run of games and did show signs of having a bit of quality, but he was by no means amazing and he has yet to instill me with a great deal of confidence. If he was that good why did Liverpool let him go rather than loan him out again for another season? They obviously didn't particularly rate him and I wonder if we had signed him from Brighton for example and his name was Daniel Andrews would people really be getting so carried away about him?

I think Ward is pretty decent and more than capable of doing a job as a squad player this season, absolutely without question. If he started a dozen games this year I would have no big concerns as from what I've seen he has never let us down. Reading all tthe stuff about him today and noting the contrasting viewpoints certain people have about him (which is often based on absolutely **** all apart from pre-determined opinions) just reminds me so much of all the ding-dongs I used to have with Carrabuh et al about The Doc back in the day. Just like back then people need to take the blinkers off, forget what the 'bloke down the pub' said and watch what actually occurs on the pitch with their own eyes. If they had been able to do that a few years ago they would have appreciate that The Doc was a significantly better defender than most gave him credit for, and the same can be said for Elliott Ward <ok>
 
robbieBB said:
To start with a bit of pedantry: I am robbie not rob. I'm sure Canary Rob would prefer that no confusion arose!
Click to expand...

That's pathetic hahaha :laugh:

robbieBB said:
Secondly, I had read your whole post. But in the context of the debate about Ayala, it is not enough that he "challenge for selection". He needs to play. If you think that Ayala should be first choice rather than Bennett, or that in your opinion he will quickly displace Bennett and become first choice for this season, just say so. If you think that Ayala should be kept irrespective of how many games he actually plays, just say that too. <ok>
Click to expand...

As I've said below look at Manchester United last year.

Evans, Smalling and Jones all trying to play as many games as possible behind two accomplished centre backs and all probably having their best season in their career. Prime example. They got rid of Wes Brown and John O'Shea and bought in youngsters to back them up. Hardly damaged their progression as a footballer when two of them won their first England caps and the other best season of his career. That's exactly what I would do if I were Hughton.

Have them two young centre backs trying to get in the first team and filling in with injuries, fatigue and loss of form and they can learn from the accomplished centre backs when they're watching from the bench, in training etc. It worked with United and I see no reason why it wouldn't work for us.
 
Ah forgot if fans don't like a player it's because they don't watch or are blinkered.

Seriously..people have different opinions on players - some rate him others don't - just agree to disagree and whilst he is at Norwich continue to support him.
 
irdan said:
Ah forgot if fans don't like a player it's because they don't watch or are blinkered.
Click to expand...

I forgot to include those ones who simply don't have the mental agility to make their own minds up based on actual facts and choose instead to believe the **** they read in the tabloid press and accept that as gospel as well.
Does my freaking head in I can tell you <steam>
 
a dangerous day to hold an opinion...

mine, for the little its worth...is that ward isn't up to prem football...barnett i still hold out some hope for (but deep down i think i know the truth)...

i would rather a 3rd choice ayala pushing our starters than either...and over rm...

that said, this makes me wonder if we have another inbound cb...i remember a few weeks ago it being reported that we were after 2 cbs this break - one experienced (turner), the other a young un...

all this makes me think we probably have something on the go...
 
Tony_Munky_Canary said:
Am I the only one who doesn't actually think Ayala is as good as some people seem to think he is? Don't get me wrong I thought he looked ok when he had a run of games and did show signs of having a bit of quality, but he was by no means amazing and he has yet to instill me with a great deal of confidence. If he was that good why did Liverpool let him go rather than loan him out again for another season? They obviously didn't particularly rate him and I wonder if we had signed him from Brighton for example and his name was Daniel Andrews would people really be getting so carried away about him?

I think Ward is pretty decent and more than capable of doing a job as a squad player this season, absolutely without question. If he started a dozen games this year I would have no big concerns as from what I've seen he has never let us down. Reading all tthe stuff about him today and noting the contrasting viewpoints certain people have about him (which is often based on absolutely **** all apart from pre-determined opinions) just reminds me so much of all the ding-dongs I used to have with Carrabuh et al about The Doc back in the day. Just like back then people need to take the blinkers off, forget what the 'bloke down the pub' said and watch what actually occurs on the pitch with their own eyes. If they had been able to do that a few years ago they would have appreciate that The Doc was a significantly better defender than most gave him credit for, and the same can be said for Elliott Ward <ok>
Click to expand...

For the record Munky, I think you'll find Doc is now plying his trade at Wycombe (hardly a ringing endorsement of his ability), and I certainly don't listen to the "bloke down the pub" when judging a player. Ward is a good defender when playing in the middle, pull him out wide and all the trouble starts, I'm not sure we can guarantee this won't happen for 90 mins however.

I want Ayala to stay to forge a relationship with Bennet, perhaps this should be done gradually throughout the season being as they are so young.

Don't forget Ayala was let go by Dalglish who also spent stupid money on stupid players, I wouldn't trust his judgement over anyones, certainly not Lamberts.

If he was Daniel Andrews from Brighton, then he wouldn't be as comfortable on the ball, because he would have been coached by Englishmen, which we all know (judging by our international teams failure to keep the ball longer than 30 seconds), are ****ing hopeless.
 
gruffnuts said:
a dangerous day to hold an opinion...

mine, for the little its worth...is that ward isn't up to prem football...barnett i still hold out some hope for (but deep down i think i know the truth)...

i would rather a 3rd choice ayala pushing our starters than either...and over rm...

that said, this makes me wonder if we have another inbound cb...i remember a few weeks ago it being reported that we were after 2 cbs this break - one experienced (turner), the other a young un...

all this makes me think we probably have something on the go...
Click to expand...

this, this, and more this
 
YellowLittle said:
The thing is I feel Ayala will learn to improve his flaws if he is looking up to a accomplished Premier League defender rather than going out on loan to Championship.

Look at Man United last season Smalling, Jones and Evans playing behind Vidic and Ferdinand. All 3 probably had their best season yet. I don't think they would have improved as much if they went out on loan.
Click to expand...

i'm sure he'll learn a heck of a lot more by playing 46 championship games rather than 8 premier league games <ok>
 
So, we now know what his manager and coaches think is best for the club and the player this season. What they think about Elliott Ward will no doubt soon become clearer as well.

Re. Ward, I don't see how one can engage in sensible debate using sweeping statements like "Ward isn't up to prem football" or "this one's **** but that one's good". None of our squad players can usefully be categorised as either "up to" playing in the Premier League, or not up to it. ALL are quite capable of doing a job for the club this season in the Premier League. Likewise, NONE of our squad players can usefully or truthfully be described as ****. <ok>
 
Irdan just as a matter of interest, what's your signature all about? Are you a true Canary or are you one of these people who have more than one favourite club?
I've got no problem either way, I was just wondering as I'm not sure why you'd be so keen to take the piss out of ManUre as it's the kind of thing I'd expect a Man City or Liverpool fan to be trotting out.
 
Just some guy/wum who frequented the united board during the early summer and came out with some right gems.

My signature being my favourite.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back