dani ayala

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Nah I agree with a lot of things you say bit ward is dog end

based on what though?

a few mistakes here and there? he's actually a talented footballer. yes he lacks a bit of pace but that isn't exposed if he plays alongside pace. with whitbread, neither had pace so it was an issue. noticeable he looks far more assured alongside bennett or ayala. i do think he can lack concentration but then so do a few of our players - martin for one. no doubt someone will bring the liverpool game up but he was only at fault for one goal and that's cos he was dragged out of position. same with the error at stoke when dragged to the touchline. other than that i can't think of too much he did wrong. nobody ever remembers the terrific blocks and exceptional reading of the game that he possess more often than not. it strikes me that fans have to have one player who they turn on (morison, martin and ruddy etc) and at the moment its ward and barnett. if someone tried to buy ward i reckon you'd be talking about a bid of £1m - £1.5m to get him - he's a good player. he certainly wouldn't be my first choice, he'd be fourth, but as fourth choices go he's a pretty good one and i think he deserves a little bit more respect from a few of our fans.

 

[irdan]

Based on every game I saw last season unfortunately.

Although he mayn't have actually made any goal scoring mistakes in some games he just fills me with feared I have no confidence in him..especially when he tries to carry the ball.

I've said it many times we have to agree to disagree but I really hope he is moved on..before Barnett IMO.

 

[irdan]

Excuse my typing on my phone! Auto correct etc

I don't mind Ward as 4th choice but due to injuries we saw him far more often than I would have liked. Hopefully that won't be the case this season.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

i think thats the point i'm making though! he's fourth choice, not first!! we were incredibly unlucky with injuries last season so he was called upon quite a lot. if we replaced him with a slightly better centre half we'll be talking about spending a small fortune, so what's the point? 99% of the time he is absolutely fine but people remember his mistakes. john terry makes lots of mistakes, rio ferdinand does. all defenders do. i don't know for sure but i bet ayala cost us as many goals as ward did, in relation to games played; probably ruddy too. fact is, we can't afford to have a top defender sitting on the bench but having someone like ward and indeed barnett in reserve is a good thing to have. if they are called upon rarely they can do a steady job for us - nothing sensational, just steady. they may make the odd mistake but all our players do. its remarkably harsh how they are treated by some of our fans considering how patient they are and how little they do wrong.

 

[K E M P]

I saw Ward against Wigan at home and I thought that his challanges were well timed and he didn't give away too much.

Everyone gives him pelters, but in the game I saw him he did really well. Put in a few good challenges in very difficult parts of the pitch including one or 2 inside the box that could of easily have gone wrong if not timed to perfection and resulted in a pen.

I think he is a good CB and would like us to keep hold of him.

People need to get off his back a bit, it's almost like people need someone to slate sometimes to make their lives complete and to make them feel better.

 

[JM Fan]

i think thats the point i'm making though! he's fourth choice, not first!! we were incredibly unlucky with injuries last season so he was called upon quite a lot. if we replaced him with a slightly better centre half we'll be talking about spending a small fortune, so what's the point? 99% of the time he is absolutely fine but people remember his mistakes. john terry makes lots of mistakes, rio ferdinand does. all defenders do. i don't know for sure but i bet ayala cost us as many goals as ward did, in relation to games played; probably ruddy too. fact is, we can't afford to have a top defender sitting on the bench but having someone like ward and indeed barnett in reserve is a good thing to have. if they are called upon rarely they can do a steady job for us - nothing sensational, just steady. they may make the odd mistake but all our players do. its remarkably harsh how they are treated by some of our fans considering how patient they are and how little they do wrong.

Good point Supers. As you say, Ward played more games than he would normally do last season, thanks to the spate of injuries our defenders suffered. I think it was Rusty who made a mistake in the home game V Arsenal which led to their 3rd goal, but what most fans remember from that game was the goal line clearances he made.

Yes, I suppose it does make sense to loan Ayala out to Forest or whoever.

On another note, I'd rather Vaughan stayed - at least to see if his injury worries are behind him and to show what he can do!!!

 

[I_Clean_holtys_boots]

Ward probably pulled off one of the challenges of the season last season with that tackle he made on graham at Swansea in which arguably was his best game for us

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Good point Supers. As you say, Ward played more games than he would normally do last season, thanks to the spate of injuries our defenders suffered. I think it was Rusty who made a mistake in the home game V Arsenal which led to their 3rd goal, but what most fans remember from that game was the goal line clearances he made.

Yes, I suppose it does make sense to loan Ayala out to Forest or whoever.

On another note, I'd rather Vaughan stayed - at least to see if his injury worries are behind him and to show what he can do!!!

i certainly see more logic in loaning ayala than vaughan! we'll have to wait and see what happens...

 

[redruthyella]

Many of our central defenders, over a long history, have probably come into the Ward syndrome. The lack of pace being the major drawback to their being top defenders. Maybe thats why, at the moment, Barnett is still on the books.
I think I put on another post somewhere that I think Ward is a fairly cultured centre back and his first thought isn't just to hoof it, even when under pressure. And of course when they cock up, it looks bloody horrible. I remember all of them doing it last season, De Laet in the opening fixture, Whitbread out on the touchline against a team I can't remember who. The fact is, they were trying to play football.
I think we can forgive them all the odd error however costly it may turn out. If they consistently do it then we have enough cover to drop them and hopefully enough funds to replace them in January.

 

[YellowLittle]

Supers, completely disagree. Would rather have four centre halves challenging to be in first 11 than two centre halves content to play back up to another two.

Also ayala and whitbread was our best centre back pair last season. They looked comfortable alongside one another and they hadn't got injured against bolton would have seen season out together at centre back.

 

[YellowLittle]

Also why are we not allowed to criticize players? All this **** that some people need a scapegoat is ridiculous. We have to look at our weak links. And for me that's the centre back position. Its a forum ffs. If i groaned every time ward touched the ball than fair enough but personally i back all players as much as anyone at games

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Supers, completely disagree. Would rather have four centre halves challenging to be in first 11 than two centre halves content to play back up to another two.

Also ayala and whitbread was our best centre back pair last season. They looked comfortable alongside one another and they hadn't got injured against bolton would have seen season out together at centre back.

dear oh dear - lets get in the real world for a moment shall we? you may very well WANT that, but we are in our second season in the premier league and cannot afford to pay the wages for a decent defender or two to sit in reserve for most of the season!! check out some of the other clubs we'll be competing with next season and see if they have better centre halves in reserve as we do, cos most of them don't. there is absolutely nothing wrong with elliott ward - he is a good player and is getting a very hard time off some sections of fans who are solely basing their appraisal on his mistakes and not what he's good at and it is totally uncalled for. i also disagree that whitbread and ayala was our best pairing last season. this myth appears to have been based on two good defensive performances out of five (yes, they played five games together!). their performance away to sunderland was as bad a defensive display by two centre halves as i saw all last season in the premier league. its true they had a good balance to them - pace and awareness complimenting each other, but then whitbread was not much better than ward - in fact they are very similar in style. whitbread was perhaps a bit better but there wasn't a gulf in class. at the end of the day, he didn't want to stay and play for us - ward does and although i don't want him playing every game, i'll be happy when he comes in cos he can do a job for us. indeed, most of our best results - swansea away, spurs away, arsenal away, all came with a ward/bennett partnership

 

[Home on the range canary]

Also why are we not allowed to criticize players? All this **** that some people need a scapegoat is ridiculous. We have to look at our weak links. And for me that's the centre back position. Its a forum ffs. If i groaned every time ward touched the ball than fair enough but personally i back all players as much as anyone at games

This is a constant problem, criticize and be damned by some folk on here. Just carry on being critical

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Also why are we not allowed to criticize players? All this **** that some people need a scapegoat is ridiculous. We have to look at our weak links. And for me that's the centre back position. Its a forum ffs. If i groaned every time ward touched the ball than fair enough but personally i back all players as much as anyone at games

perhaps if someone could justify to us why the criticism is so constant, even when he plays well - as he has in pre-season and did throughout most of last season, then we could have a better debate about it. so far, everyone who has criticised him has given no real reason why they have done so other than personal preference. lack of pace? sure - but so did whitbread so why the gulf in criticism? mistakes? sure - but why was only he singled out?

 

[YellowLittle]

Don't get all arrogant with your dear oh dear.

Ayala will more likely compete for starting place over them two. Probably on less wages than ward and barnett i would say. So that argument of not being able to afford four centre halves challenging for starting 11 doesn't wash.

Another point about the whitbread and ayala partnership is they got better and better. Sunderland was a terrible game for most starting that game. 5 games and would have definitely played more if not for injury

 

[YellowLittle]

I like Elliot Ward but think that its the position we need to improve. I think too slow, which is a big problem in this league. I think he can be poor in decisions i.e stoke and Liverpool.

But Ward is better than Barnett, although Barnett has been good this pre season. Not really seen much pre season mind but went MK

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Don't get all arrogant with your dear oh dear.

Ayala will more likely compete for starting place over them two. Probably on less wages than ward and barnett i would say. So that argument of not being able to afford four centre halves challenging for starting 11 doesn't wash.

Another point about the whitbread and ayala partnership is they got better and better. Sunderland was a terrible game for most starting that game. 5 games and would have definitely played more if not for injury

the sunderland game was the penultimate match of their partnership. is that getting better and better? they played well in two games - TWO!!

and since when is saying 'dear oh dear' arrogant? i was expressing disbelief!

anyway, fact is, whitbread is no longer with us - that's a bit disappointing but hardly the end of the world. ayala is heading out on loan - again, hardly a disaster, common sense really so he can get some game time. what are we left with? turner and bennett who are our two best centre halves, ward and barnett who are capable back up and martin who can cover everyone. we have a stronger central defence next season than we had last so what's the issue?

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

once again, this poor decision making is always in the same area and showed a lack of cover. all his mistakes were from a wide area where he had to cover for the full backs - i must sound like a broken record but its so obvious its easy to see why i get frustrated banging on about it!! if hughton plays a more 'safety first' style, as he has in pre-season, then this will not be an issue. ward, whitbread, de laet et al were susceptible to mistakes in wide areas due to the gung-ho approach of lambert. great to watch, not great for the defenders who were left worryingly short on cover. by simplifying the way they are asked to play, the more comfortable they will be. mistakes will be marginalised and all of a sudden, error-prone defenders, of which ALL our current centre halves were amongst, will be more assured. simples

 

[YellowLittle]

Condescending to say dear oh dear, as if your the gospel of football knowledge or something.

Again why do you want two centre backs content on sitting on bench when Ayala will push for starting 11 without a doubt. Again Sunderland was a bad game for every player on that pitch. Reason we lost was because they kept pressing fox which means we could never keep the ball and ended up playing to fullbacks who would than go long.

Again all defenders made mistakes your right. Hence why we look to improve there. You look who made most mistakes. Why they made mistakes etc. A few due to tactics correct, but some not. I hope they will be more comfortable this year and probably will play a bit more cautious. But still position i think we are weakest. The one position other than left back and in goal we don't have two players fighting for starting place.

 

[Northamptonncfc]

Jesus ****ing Christ if you think Wards good then you've been taking drugs. His too slow and his clumsy not good enough for this level of football in my opinion.