They will never meet so its irrelevant, but Frankel would be short odds and rightly so, Orfevre has a top engine but Frankel is a freak of nature.
Frankel would laugh at him on his last two pieces of form simple as that He may have been unlucky today but he lost to a filly that was beaten by Allied Powers in May. Yes she is better than that but her best form has her closely matched with Shareta been behind her twice - and I know Shareta didn't run her race today. Imagine how far Frankel would beat Shareta Jap horse Wouldn't get within 5 lengths imo
Would Frankel have won the Arc today on heavy ground from 18? St Nic beaten 7 lengths by Frankel, beaten 15 lengths by Orfevre today. That means as much as Solemias form with Shareta, she has clearly run about a stone better than any of her previous form. Sea Moon beaten 2 1/4 by Danefluke and Slowthaniel, beaten 12 lengths today by a real Top Group 1 horse. Orfevre is without doubt the clear second best in the world, he is different class from your Nathaniels n co, but Frankel is unbeatable and its unfair to rate horses against him.
Who mentioned anything about heavy ground over 1m4f I am on about the champion stakes if they run as it is the only way they will ever race. But to answer your question YES he would have beaten that filly who won the Arc today
The answer to the question is actually no one knows. Considering how Cecil has campaigned him and his 6f speed, its highly unlikely that he would get home over 1m4 in heavy ground, highly unlikely, I know hes a freak but that would just be extracting the michael. Strictly on the book, the answer is 100% no. Pointless talk anyway, the cotton wool kid would never be risked in a situation where everything is not 100% perfect for him, ie, drawn 18 of 18 in a soft ground Arc.
I think Orfevre is certainly an exciting horse Ron as it's not easy to overcome that draw and finish 7 lengths clear of the third. It however must be put in context of look who the horse was beaten by and the ground was terrible which makes the form very questionable. I would take the Jockeys comments about as seriously as AOB's who was once again banging on about Camalot being the best he has had again. There is one view which is he's the jockey/trainer and must know better than us but watching their races and reading their form provides a much clearer and less disputable picture. It's possible we are wrong but until you see a performance like Zarkava who was an amazing horse or Montejou i think their claims must be questioned. I hope the Japanese horse comes for the Champion as i want it to be a test that adds to the form book and provides a spectacle but i cannot see anything getting near Frankel.
Why go for the Champion Stakes, a graveyard for Arc runners, would be insane, next years Arc must be the target.
You have to bear in mind that the winner needs soft ground. Orfevre is better on better ground and virtually won the race despite the ground and the draw. Also he got to the front too soon and started to muck about (again) even collided with the rails near the line. Must have lost more ground diving over to the rails than that by which he lost the race. Had the jockey realised how good he was and left his challenge a bit longer he would have won going away. A serious race horse I think.
For me Orfevre looks like exactly the sort of animal to excel over 10 furlongs. However today will take a long time to put form into context. It was stickt sticky ground with many strung out finishes and there is no way some of the contenders ran to their best. Orfevre has a turn of foot, and a good cruising speed- vital 10f attributes. Would not get close to Frankel however, who wid just power clear with that stride of his.
