Is the excitement in the Premier League tempered now to a great degree because there is an inevitability about realistic expectations? We have debated before that our league is really covering positions 9th - 20th - on that basis, is there that much to get overly excited about?
I think this is partly the case, many teams are scared of losing (being relegated) rather then ambitious and aiming to win competitions (this is not entirely true as Im sure they want to win every game, but it is the expectation of certain results). Also at the top end I think many new fans support individual players rather then a team, which is just not the same. Many want instant success and therefore when it is not forthcoming they are not happy, creating poorer atmospheres. This could also be because people spend huge amounts on tickets so expect more.
It was mainly tongue in cheek JK. I for one didn't want it to be removed, but it has always been there since I started supporting, I missed it on away days! I think it can involve people a lot more and bring more atmosphere from some of the family support. It did bring a kind of party atmosphere to the ground. However, I can see why others were opposed to it and can see that in some eyes it was cheap and tack and shouldn't be needed to create atmosphere.
Well said Carrabuh - as is often the case with you a lot of common sense spoken which is then ignored as it contradicts the general flow of thought. Everything moves on. People nowadays want more for their money and safety and comfort rates highly in that. There is a load of nostalgic myth about life on the terraces - as with past weather you only remember the good bits. In reality terracing tended to attract trouble in and out of the ground and produced conditions that are no longer acceptable. Facilities which we accepted 40 years ago are not acceptable now - move on and get over it. If terraces returned, even in a limited form, would I use them? No. Would I continue taking my 12 year old with me to matches? No. Grounds in Eastern Europe have more atmosphere - perhaps they do but they also have more trouble. To me football is a sport and an entertainment - not tribal warfare. Why do you assume that highly paid players try harder because 10k people are shrieking ' naarridge, naarridge ' or questioning the darkened room habits of the referee? More females and families attend matches than ever because it is safe and more comfortable and seating etc has kept away the rabble who were only ever interested in ' bovver' My Grandad also introduced me to greyhound racing at Boundary Park. Cold, wet, seedy but full of atmosphere - a dying sport. Been to Yarmouth lately?
I'm sure they would not bring standing back unless they were convinced of it s safety. Equally I'm sure they would keep the majority of seating for those who wanted it. I'm not saying they should bring it back, but if it is proven to be safe then surely it is a viable option. Maybe trouble has also decreased due to increased and improved policing? And surely you regard atmosphere as important? If I didn't care about the atmosphere I wouldn't go to live games, but as people know it is that live atmosphere that makes games more special. I don't think there is a link between trouble and atmosphere. Plenty of sports, teams and stadiums have a great atmosphere with no trouble.
Assume? You only have to listen to or talk to players to know that having the crowd behind them matters and makes a difference.
There can be great atmospheres at cricket matches, where beer can be drunk freely and supporters of both sides intermingle - the argument is not black and white about terraces at football stadia, rather how terracing would be introduced and managed. Liverpool used to be a cauldron of noise and now you can her the phlegm trickling down the scouse throats
Twickenham, millennium stadium, murrayfield all have great atmospheres during the six nations - not full of yobbos, just full of people passionate about sport cheering on their teams.
Many other sports, particularly at international have great atmospheres as you have mentioned. I love atmosphere at cricket but it is very different to football or rugby. Don't think beer at football would be a good idea, sadly I think people will use it as an excuse to fight and be abusive, even if it works at other sports. Standing is certainly not the be all and end all of having good atmosphere at football, I would say price and fans attitudes are most important.
Tickets should included two compulsory pints before the match, one during first half one at half time and one in the second half. then the crowd would be rocking
Have to do a shot for every shot on target and a pint for each goal...... maybe not we would all be sober!
But the way standing is approached in Germany is of a different standard to the facilities used in the UK 40 years ago. This video is clearly biased, but is a good demonstration of how it would be introduced: [video=youtube;apX5V1IJCW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=apX5V1IJCW4[/video] I wouldn't want it to be introduced in every stand, but I think there's a place for it. At Carrow Road for example, the lower Barclay is probably the most vocal area, and must seat around 3000 people? If we could get the same increase in capacity as Hannover, that's 5,700 standing. If it was to be introduced you wouldn't just say "right, everyone who has a season ticket here has to get used to standing", I think to start with at least you'd say you have to be 18 to stand, and try to relocate those who don't want to stand into other seats around the ground. There's likely to be a similar number who would like to move into the standing areas, for the improved atmosphere and cheaper pricing (you could knock 25% off and still make more money), so it shouldn't be a great issue. People don't sing half as much when they're sat down, and having stewards telling people to sit down every 5 minutes just annoys both parties. If you've got ~6000 like-minded people who all want to stand up and shout and sing in an area of the ground designed for it, the atmosphere should improve significantly. With regards safety, I wasn't around when terracing was previously allowed, but I'm under the impression that the key issues were surging and overcrowding? As far as I'm aware, they don't have that problem in Germany because of the high railings in place between rows, and because everyone gets an allocated place to stand, just as if it were a seat.
You get a different type of person going to football than you do rugby and cricket. I think football has far more of an inner city culture to it which tends to attractsthe dregs. If I was in my 20's again I'd probably like to stand, now approaching 40 there is no way I would want to stand. Besides if they re-introduced standing I'd spend most of the game tutting to myself about the oiks who are standing shouting obscenities.
The german example does look very good to me, and that is for someone over 40. Carrabuh don't get old before your time.
I find a lot of new football fans are very restrained and introverted, it's almost robotic and drone like in some ways, most football fans are like this perhaps it's a confidence thing or they might like to deeply concentrate, as fans they sort of exist but they don't bother me I'd like to see them make some noise but they don't bother me. The number one fan who kills the atmosphere is one who constantly moans about people making noise, I'm sure we've all sat near them at the Carrow Road, they are like the scornful librarian and you don't even need to hear them directly to know they are whinging or disapprove, if you sit near people like this don't ever be afraid to challenge them if they moan about noise or care about their opinion, because these are the type of people who write things on the comments section of the Daily Mail website they're never happy about anything.
I've only ever know seated stands but I'd much rather stand at a match, the few terraces I have been on were much more vocal. And a lot more fun!
This got me thinking and my first thought was they mean ' better with us than against us ' but then something else sprung to mind. Over the years I can only remember very few occasions when the crowd at Carrow Road were described as making so much noise that they drove the team on to victory. The Cup replays in 1959, the match against Palace in 1973 which we had to win to stay up, the league cup beating of our friends down the road in 1985 and the rearranged league cup tie with Chelsea in 1973 when fog robbed us of victory in the first match. The Kop got its reputation during Liverpool's European campaigns and Spurs supporters refer to ' European nights at the Lane' when talking about atmosphere. See the link? - night. Do us Brits only let ourselves go at night under the false belief that nobody else can see us?
Not a bad theory. I went to the Bernabeu for an evening match and it was incredible. Of course, the Spanish have good reason for evening matches... But my favourite experiences have definitely been when it's dark and playing under the floodlights. Probably linked to having booze in the evenings!
To be honest I can't remember the last away game where I wasn't standing for pretty much the whole match. There are the odd few minutes here and there when the jobsworth stewards make us sit down, but someone will generally pipe up with a "stand up if you hate the scum" before too long and up we all get again. Admittedly this is only away games, and when I'm get to home games I'm generally in the N&P or Jarrold where it's not like that. Away fans stand up at Carrow Road as well, safe in the knowledge they won't be back for another year and won't be risking their season tickets with persistent offending (I'm sure the club must have a policy on it) so is this becoming a disadvantage to home teams perhaps?
