Crime - part deux.

[brb]

Do we need the reintroduction of capital punishment for such heinous crimes as this?

It's a difficult question to answer because I'm against the death penalty, so I try to remind myself of past events to put it in perspective:

1986 Hungerford

1996 Dunblane

These are large domestic incidents where weapons ie a single individual carried them out without the aid of explosives.

Hungerford certainly brought about some changes, I would expect the current government and shadow government insisting on changes to our knife laws...I'm not even sure why we are even still having to discuss this, how many more deaths will it take.

 

[FosseFilberto]

Got 3 girls - all did ballet / dance from primary school through secondary school - can't begin to think what those parents are going through - too horrific for words ..

 

[duggie2000]

Got 3 girls - all did ballet / dance from primary school through secondary school - can't begin to think what those parents are going through - too horrific for words ..

Two of my nieces did ballet and we went to a few of their shows, that was around 30 years ago, so much has changed since then

 

[brb]

Just seen a third child has died from the stabbings incident.

Only 9 years old

 

[Gessa]

Just seen a third child has died from the stabbings incident.

Only 9 years old

Very sad news, obviously have to wait and see the full details but why was this bloke on the watch list. Saw some photos yesterday of the similar incident in France last year, wish I hadn't.

 

[Gessa]

How the **** has this happened.



Helen, a neighbour of the suspect's family while they lived in Cardiff, has spoken of her shock at hearing the news from Southport.



"They were a lovely young couple. They were little boys, they were boisterous. Mum was a stay-at-home mum, Dad was nice, he went to work every day.



"They had a small family car, a little hatchback. They said they'd come from Rwanda and I thought, whatever you've been through, you deserve privacy.



"I'm not going to pry, you know, you've already got a story, and it's probably not a good one. It (the Rwandan genocide) had been in the news about a year before that.



"They were a normal family and they were normal kids trying to make ends meet. We chatted over the garden fence. You know, in the summer the back doors open, we chatted over the fence."



As a reminder, the suspect cannot be named for legal reasons.

 

[FosseFilberto]

Looks like a lot of the speculation on Social Media was misleading ... with incorrect naming and speculation as to arrival in the UK etc ... not helpful and fuels misdirected hatred / accusations etc ...

... that said - the perpetrator should never ever be released - no parole, no sentence cutting etc ... and straight to adult maximum security - no hospital or young offender bollocks ..

 

[Spurlock]

Looks like a lot of the speculation on Social Media was misleading ... with incorrect naming and speculation as to arrival in the UK etc ... not helpful and fuels misdirected hatred / accusations etc ...

... that said - the perpetrator should never ever be released - no parole, no sentence cutting etc ... and straight to adult maximum security - no hospital or young offender bollocks ..

needs putting down and thrown in the skip

 

[FosseFilberto]

needs putting down and thrown in the skip

We discussed this yesterday and whilst the concept of a death penalty in civilised society feels abhorrent in principle to me - when weighed against the potential of deterring those capable of the kind of depravity that occurred yesterday, I have to say, I would be in favour ... as I suspect the vast majority of parents would be - but maybe I'm wrong?

 

[FosseFilberto]

The photos of the 3 little girls on the BBC site are truly heart rending ...

 

[Solid Air]

We discussed this yesterday and whilst the concept of a death penalty in civilised society feels abhorrent to me - when weighed against the potential of deterring those capable of the kind of depravity that occurred yesterday, I have to say, I would be in favour ... as I suspect the vast majority of parents would be - but maybe I'm wrong?

the death penalty clearly isn't a deterrent based on the countries that have it

 

[brb]

We discussed this yesterday and whilst the concept of a death penalty in civilised society feels abhorrent to me - when weighed against the potential of deterring those capable of the kind of depravity that occurred yesterday, I have to say, I would be in favour ... as I suspect the vast majority of parents would be - but maybe I'm wrong?

While I hear what you guys say, and I agree it's what they deserve, sadly if we are looking at the death penalty as a deterrent, it's not. A guy that can kill three kids and maime many others will not care about death. Much as I believe the guy that stabbed up the soldier in Gillingham, he didn't even understand the court proceedings, so he's got no chance of understanding the meaning of death. Anything more extreme ie such as the Manchester Arena bombing, again death would not have been a deterrent, because he sacrificed his own life at the warped expense of his cause. If we are saying that death is a penalty rather than a deterrent, then I agree.

 

[FosseFilberto]

While I hear what you guys say, and I agree it's what they deserve, sadly if we are looking at the death penalty as a deterrent, it's not. A guy that can kill three kids and maime many others will not care about death. Much as I believe the guy that stabbed up the soldier in Gillingham, he didn't even understand the court proceedings, so he's got no chance of understanding the meaning of death. Anything more extreme ie such as the Manchester Arena bombing, again death would not have been a deterrent, because he sacrificed his own life at the warped expense of his cause. If we are saying that death is a penalty rather than a deterrent, then I agree.

Get your point .. for me it's a bit of both 'tho....

This abomination of a human being got in a taxi yesterday to travel to the venue; suggesting his actions were both planned and premeditated ... we'll never know for sure, of course, but if he also knew he would be summarily executed for such a crime rather than being incarcerated for 'life', would he still have gone ahead with it?

 

[FosseFilberto]

the death penalty clearly isn't a deterrent based on the countries that have it

... that's not really conclusive tho' ...because figures for those that might have gone on to kill if not for it, can't be substantiated ...

 

[Gessa]

The only thing that stops me going full on wanting the death penalty is, we've had miscarriages of justice in the past. The problem then is, I'd want it for serial rapists too.

 

[Spurlock]

We discussed this yesterday and whilst the concept of a death penalty in civilised society feels abhorrent in principle to me - when weighed against the potential of deterring those capable of the kind of depravity that occurred yesterday, I have to say, I would be in favour ... as I suspect the vast majority of parents would be - but maybe I'm wrong?

Nah you're right bro

Simple maths

Put one down and watch the other cowards think twice

No rape, no theft in Saudi

Why?

Legal chop chop

Init

 

[FosseFilberto]

The only thing that stops me going full on wanting the death penalty is, we've had miscarriages of justice in the past. The problem then is, I'd want it for serial rapists too.

... that would also be my biggest concern - but obviously wouldn't apply in this latest atrocity ...

 

[brb]

Get your point .. for me it's a bit of both 'tho....

This abomination of a human being got in a taxi yesterday to travel to the venue; suggesting his actions were both planned and premeditated ... we'll never know for sure, of course, but if he also knew he would be summarily executed for such a crime rather than being incarcerated for 'life', would he still have gone ahead with it?

For me, your question is too complicated and would require too much indepth analysis of human psychology and the individual in question to be able to answer it. But I take your point about planning and premeditated.

 

[brb]

Nah you're right bro

Simple maths

Put one down and watch the other cowards think twice

No rape, no theft in Saudi

Why?

Legal chop chop

Init

Answer that another way mate...

In March 2022, Saudi Arabia executed 81 people, transcending the 67 people executed in 2021.

So that tells me the law in Saudi failed 148 times to deter between 2021 and 2022.

My point being I'm only talking about the most extreme crimes in the UK.

 

[Spurlock]

Answer that another way mate...

In March 2022, Saudi Arabia executed 81 people, transcending the 67 people executed in 2021.

So that tells me the law in Saudi failed 148 times to deter between 2021 and 2022.

My point being I'm only talking about the most extreme crimes in the UK.

If perfection is the goal then yeah but its not...it's to deter....humans are stupid...but some are more stupid than others and still chance it.