Off Topic Covidiots

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Joelinton's Right Foot said:
That always happens with viruses. It's not that the vaccine doesn't work against them, just that it is less effective. Some variants will be more deadly, others will spread better and others will make the virus virtually harmless. All that will happen is that the vaccine boosters will be adjusted each season to account for the most likely bad variants to be spreading, just like they already do with the flu vaccine.
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Nah this is not going away
 
Joelinton's Right Foot said:
It attacks everywhere, but when it attacks indoors it plays Wilson, Miggy and ASM. When it attacks outdoors it plays Gayle, Fraser and Joelinton. It can still get lucky outdoors but if that's all it has got it will eventually go down.
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Are you overlooking how dangerous the Brazilian variant is?
 
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Joelinton's Right Foot said:
I think the majority of people are still following the rules in the main, though not necessarily to the letter. From what I have seen they are followed far less in this area than in other parts of the country though - at least in terms of mask wearing in shops and garages etc. There is nowhere near the normal level of mixing between people though, so that should bring the numbers down.

Looks like the outdoor mixing doesn't have a big effect on Covid numbers, so you might have been right about that one all along. There were no recorded spikes in cases after all of those times beaches were crowded in the summer, or any of the mass outdoor gatherings that took place. There have been lots of cases of spikes after indoor gatherings though.
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By and large I think people do follow the rules - always have done. The indoor gatherings have never changed though, the same parties etc everyone was blaming 2 months ago or 4 months ago, are still taking place. I think we can safely put to bed this theory that Covid spikes are anything to do with rule breakers entering each others houses or gathering. That was always bullshit and largely one for the Daily Fail readers. This has always been about testing, methods of testing and what we should be looking for. A lot of leading epidemiologists in public health have pointed this out. The viral load someone is carrying is the key information, and why track and trace needs to be much better, and testing improved. Patrick Vallance admitted openly the sensitivity of the PCR test as recently as February. I seem to remember pointing this out on here a while back, and it being rubbished etc. As I said at the time, you have to be careful with this "follow the science" mantra, because it depends who is choosing which science to follow. More than ever the requirement for open debate and allowing all experts to have a say is being highlighted.

I see the AstraZeneca vaccine has been suspended in several EU countries over concerns about blood clots. Funny because that vaccine will have been delivered here more than anywhere else surely? As far as I'm aware there is no big surge in blood clotting issues here? Call me a massive cynic, but I suspect more than ever this whole thing is being politicised.
 
Warm Pouch said:
By and large I think people do follow the rules - always have done. The indoor gatherings have never changed though, the same parties etc everyone was blaming 2 months ago or 4 months ago, are still taking place. I think we can safely put to bed this theory that Covid spikes are anything to do with rule breakers entering each others houses or gathering. That was always bullshit and largely one for the Daily Fail readers. This has always been about testing, methods of testing and what we should be looking for. A lot of leading epidemiologists in public health have pointed this out. The viral load someone is carrying is the key information, and why track and trace needs to be much better, and testing improved. Patrick Vallance admitted openly the sensitivity of the PCR test as recently as February. I seem to remember pointing this out on here a while back, and it being rubbished etc. As I said at the time, you have to be careful with this "follow the science" mantra, because it depends who is choosing which science to follow. More than ever the requirement for open debate and allowing all experts to have a say is being highlighted.

I see the AstraZeneca vaccine has been suspended in several EU countries over concerns about blood clots. Funny because that vaccine will have been delivered here more than anywhere else surely? As far as I'm aware there is no big surge in blood clotting issues here? Call me a massive cynic, but I suspect more than ever this whole thing is being politicised.
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Even at the height of the outbreak, most people didn't have Covid at any one time. That means most indoor gatherings wouldn't have resulted in any spikes because no amount of mixing will spread it if it isn't there in the first place. The thing about indoor gatherings though is that if one person there has Covid then by the end of the night the likelihood is that most of the people there will have been infected. As vaccinations increase, and the occurrence of Covid in the population at large decreases with vaccinations and lockdown, then you would expect the number of indoor gatherings that result in super spreader events to also decrease. I don't think any of those points undermine the science behind lockdown rules.

The whole test and trace program has been completely inept and not fit for purpose. As a country we had one of the worst testing programs in the world. I think a lot of the reasons for this will come out in the wash when we see who was awarded the contracts and how the money was spent. A lot of those decisions were politicised and self serving. I don't think now is the time to be looking at this as it would detract from the effort to get things back to normal. However, when it is looked at then I believe it will open a whole can of worms about jobs for the boys, or girls (Dido Harding), and a corrupted contracting system.

To balance that though, I believe our vaccination program has been world beating. This is because it was organised by the NHS rather than a company owned by Winston Churchill's grandson. They learned their lessons and implemented a very good program, so credit where credit is due.
 
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Joelinton's Right Foot said:
Even at the height of the outbreak, most people didn't have Covid at any one time. That means most indoor gatherings wouldn't have resulted in any spikes because no amount of mixing will spread it if it isn't there in the first place. The thing about indoor gatherings though is that if one person there has Covid then by the end of the night the likelihood is that most of the people there will have been infected. As vaccinations increase, and the occurrence of Covid in the population at large decreases with vaccinations and lockdown, then you would expect the number of indoor gatherings that result in super spreader events to also decrease. I don't think any of those points undermine the science behind lockdown rules.

The whole test and trace program has been completely inept and not fit for purpose. As a country we had one of the worst testing programs in the world. I think a lot of the reasons for this will come out in the wash when we see who was awarded the contracts and how the money was spent. A lot of those decisions were politicised and self serving. I don't think now is the time to be looking at this as it would detract from the effort to get things back to normal. However, when it is looked at then I believe it will open a whole can of worms about jobs for the boys, or girls (Dido Harding), and a corrupted contracting system.

To balance that though, I believe our vaccination program has been world beating. This is because it was organised by the NHS rather than a company owned by Winston Churchill's grandson. They learned their lessons and implemented a very good program, so credit where credit is due.
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It needs to go much wider than just Boris and co. The problem is also in who is giving the advice. Its all very well Matt Softcock claiming there is no reason to be concerned that chief advisers like Patrick Vallance or Sir John Bell or Kate Bingham have conflicts of interest. Thanks Matt, but if its all the same to you I'd like it investigated why we are appointing guys with significant shares in vaccine producers, shares in companies producing faulty anti body tests, etc. Don't try and tell me they were simply the best candidate. I don't believe in so many coincidences.

I think people are starting to wake up. You get all these people saying "follow the science" without being smart enough to even look at the scientists who are giving the advice. Just to be clear for those who are a bit naive, its just as easy to buy off a medical professional or for a medical professional to be unscrupulous in pursuit of money, as it is a politician. Indeed a lot of the higher up medical professionals I've come into contact with are:
  • arrogant
  • emotionally cold
  • very driven by money
Not a good mix when they are making decisions which could directly influence their own pocket linings! Oh no they wouldn't do that, they have ethical standards they sign up to. Yeah, guess what, so did ****ing Shipman!

The British Medical Journal among others have been investigating all this for awhile.
 
Warm Pouch said:
It needs to go much wider than just Boris and co. The problem is also in who is giving the advice. Its all very well Matt Softcock claiming there is no reason to be concerned that chief advisers like Patrick Vallance or Sir John Bell or Kate Bingham have conflicts of interest. Thanks Matt, but if its all the same to you I'd like it investigated why we are appointing guys with significant shares in vaccine producers, shares in companies producing faulty anti body tests, etc. Don't try and tell me they were simply the best candidate. I don't believe in so many coincidences.

I think people are starting to wake up. You get all these people saying "follow the science" without being smart enough to even look at the scientists who are giving the advice. Just to be clear for those who are a bit naive, its just as easy to buy off a medical professional or for a medical professional to be unscrupulous in pursuit of money, as it is a politician. Indeed a lot of the higher up medical professionals I've come into contact with are:
  • arrogant
  • emotionally cold
  • very driven by money
Not a good mix when they are making decisions which could directly influence their own pocket linings! Oh no they wouldn't do that, they have ethical standards they sign up to. Yeah, guess what, so did ****ing Shipman!

The British Medical Journal among others have been investigating all this for awhile.
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For what its worth, despite not being a fan of Boris I don't put the blame on just him for how the contracts were awarded. I think its institutionalised corruption that has gone on for years and is deeply embedded in the whole system (regardless of who is in power). It has gone on for years. Just look at the whole Carillion fiasco that spanned several governments. We are now seeing the same thing with Serco.

What I do find worrying is the growing contempt of parliament from successive governments. We are meant to be ruled by parliament and not the government. Isolating parliament makes it easier for corruption to happen and harder to identify and investigate.
 
Joelinton's Right Foot said:
For what its worth, despite not being a fan of Boris I don't put the blame on just him for how the contracts were awarded. I think its institutionalised corruption that has gone on for years and is deeply embedded in the whole system (regardless of who is in power). It has gone on for years. Just look at the whole Carillion fiasco that spanned several governments. We are now seeing the same thing with Serco.

What I do find worrying is the growing contempt of parliament from successive governments. We are meant to be ruled by parliament and not the government. Isolating parliament makes it easier for corruption to happen and harder to identify and investigate.
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Its been rife for years. I'm guilty of using the term Boris and Co. You're right though, you can't lay this at his door. This is a historical mess. The only reason its becoming more exposed is because access to information is at an all time high. Transparency is sought nowadays. If you read what the british medical journal says about the challenges its faced squeezing the info out, its telling. You'd only not be forthcoming for one reason - you have something to hide!

Vallance went from fighting to keep anonymity to eulogising about the need for transparency when the wind changed. He knew his skeletons were coming out the closet.
 
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