Match Day Thread Coventry Vs Norwich

[Robbie BB]

Slimane slotted in as if he'd been with us from the start; could turn out to be the best signing of the lot (bar Doyle) in terms of his overall impact on the team. Not only does he point, he also talks! (I thought McLean had an excellent game too, by the way, once he'd got the give-the-ball-away first few minutes out of his system.)

 

[Golden Eadie 2]

Our passing is certainly more incisive now, much more penatrative. Slimane and Schwartau both looked excellent in that second half. Coventry were not great then, but that was because we took control and left them to feed on scraps.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Our passing is certainly more incisive now, much more penatrative. Slimane and Schwartau both looked excellent in that second half. Coventry were not great then, but that was because we took control and left them to feed on scraps.

Slimane and Schwartau played together at Brøndby and that showed on the pitch. I'm still concerned about Crnac though, as once again he seemed to struggle to get any consistent involvement in the game. Hopefully that will improve soon. The international break comes at a good time for all of the new signings to get used to Thorup's tactics and settle into the area.

 

[zogean_king]

Slimane and Schwartau played together at Brøndby and that showed on the pitch. I'm still concerned about Crnac though, as once again he seemed to struggle to get any consistent involvement in the game. Hopefully that will improve soon. The international break comes at a good time for all of the new signings to get used to Thorup's tactics and settle into the area.

I was annoyed with Crnac at one stage when Stacy/ Duffy had two Coventry players running at them at pace and he wasn't busting a gut to get back to help. It is still young in his time at Norwich, but I hope that workrate/ awareness of the situation will be drilled into him.

 

[Robbie BB]

but I hope that workrate/ awareness of the situation will be drilled into him.

He (and Forson) looked leggy and off the pace from the start, but is it any wonder? As I pointed out previously, Thorup threw him straight into the starting XI against Sheffield just two days after his arrival. He played 80 or so minutes of that game, his performance getting a 6/10 from Paddy Davitt, quote:

"Whirlwind few days saw him start after one training session following his move from Poland. The intensity and physicality of the Championship appeared something of a shock on a couple of occasions, when he was exposed. Ran into trouble in the 35th minute but bailed out by Chrisene’s goal-saving block.
But glimpses of what he can bring. Sat down Souza in the seventh minute to thread a ball for Sainz who diverted it away from the sliding Sargent. Deflected shot on the hour mark spiralled up for Cooper. Clever link up play with Sargent in the 70th minute, who dragged his shot at Cooper from 18 yards."

His excellent ball across in the 7th minute should have earned him an immediate Assist, and the linkup play with Sargent in the 70th minute could have given him another. HIs long distance effort on goal was Sara-like, and would have really tested Cooper had it not been deflected. There were plenty of good signs there, and three days later he was tasked with leading the line in the Cup tie against Palace, again playing 80 or so minutes. But for Dean Henderson in the Palace goal, he could have had two goals, and the follow up attempts by Forsyth and Schwartau were more culpable misses than his.

That's two tough matches in three days, just five days after arriving, then another challenging game four days later against Coventry. Is it any surprise if he looked leggy and off the pace? In more normal circumstances he probably would have been on the bench until fully acclimatised, and played maybe 20 minutes at a time. From what Crnac himself has said about why he's come, he's well aware that he's got a lot to learn, and a lot of development to undergo. It's why he's here.

I don't get the negativity. He's just 20. He's had probably the most challenging ten days of his career, and IMO shown a lot of grit and determination in dealing with it. It took Sargent over a year to adjust to playing for us, to the extent that some people questioned whether he could actually play football. If developing young players is going to be a big part of our modus operandum as a club, we need to encourage them, not grumble about their not already being closer than they are to the finished product.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I th

He (and Forson) looked leggy and off the pace from the start, but is it any wonder? As I pointed out previously, Thorup threw him straight into the starting XI against Sheffield just two days after his arrival. He played 80 or so minutes of that game, his performance getting a 6/10 from Paddy Davitt, quote:

"Whirlwind few days saw him start after one training session following his move from Poland. The intensity and physicality of the Championship appeared something of a shock on a couple of occasions, when he was exposed. Ran into trouble in the 35th minute but bailed out by Chrisene’s goal-saving block.
But glimpses of what he can bring. Sat down Souza in the seventh minute to thread a ball for Sainz who diverted it away from the sliding Sargent. Deflected shot on the hour mark spiralled up for Cooper. Clever link up play with Sargent in the 70th minute, who dragged his shot at Cooper from 18 yards."

His excellent ball across in the 7th minute should have earned him an immediate Assist, and the linkup play with Sargent in the 70th minute could have given him another. HIs long distance effort on goal was Sara-like, and would have really tested Cooper had it not been deflected. There were plenty of good signs there, and three days later he was tasked with leading the line in the Cup tie against Palace, again playing 80 or so minutes. But for Dean Henderson in the Palace goal, he could have had two goals, and the follow up attempts by Forsyth and Schwartau were more culpable misses than his.

That's two tough matches in three days, just five days after arriving, then another challenging game four days later against Coventry. Is it any surprise if he looked leggy and off the pace? In more normal circumstances he probably would have been on the bench until fully acclimatised, and played maybe 20 minutes at a time. From what Crnac himself has said about why he's come, he's well aware that he's got a lot to learn, and a lot of development to undergo. It's why he's here.

I don't get the negativity. He's just 20. He's had probably the most challenging ten days of his career, and IMO shown a lot of grit and determination in dealing with it. It took Sargent over a year to adjust to playing for us, to the extent that some people questioned whether he could actually play football. If developing young players is going to be a big part of our modus operandum as a club, we need to encourage them, not grumble about their not already being closer than they are to the finished product.

I think he has been played out of necessity on the right so far as we have been a bit thin on the ground. With Kaide Gordon now in the building I would expect him to start on the RW and Crnac be used more as a rotation option or sub for Sargent and Gordon

 

[RiverEndRick]

I don't think it's negativity, it's a concern about a key player in a key position who we paid £8.5m for. That pressure has eased somewhat after Schwartau arrived. At the moment, he looks more positive and committed than Crnac, who is two years older and has experience playing out wide. Players adjust at different rates but at the moment, Schwartau seems to offer more in spite of his young age. This may well change over time and the international break will help all of the new players adjust. Like Suffolk, I'm keen to see how Liverpool's Gordon fits in and kicks on, because, on paper, he's a much better fit at WR.

 

[RiverEndRick]

The age profile of our 8 new players:

Anis Ben Slimane – 23
Jose Cordoba – 23
Amankwah Forson – 21
Callum Doyle – 20
Ben Chrisene – 20
Ante Crnac – 20
Kaide Gordon – 19
Oscar Schwartau – 18

It's interesting that, in times past, the five youngest would often have been seen as joining the U21s until they were ready. Four of the five have already been heavily involved in games and Gordon, who only arrived on Friday, should soon join them.

Meanwhile these players are joining the U21 squad:

Tom Finch GK 19
H. Okwumo RB 18
Theo Adelusi CB 17
Lucien Mahavo RB 19
AJ Bridge CM 19
Brandon Forbes S 18
Billy Gee CB/DM 19

 

[Robbie BB]

I don't think it's negativity, it's a concern about a key player in a key position who we paid £8.5m for.

Sorry Rick, it is negativity. Even "concern" is unduly negative considering what you say it's based on. Describing him as "a key player in a key position" makes it sound as if Sargent has gone and Crnac has been brought in as his replacement. That's simply not so. If he's anyone's direct replacement, it's Idah's. Was Idah "a key player in a key position"? And speaking of Idah, can anyone honestly say that he'd have made a better fist of it at 9 against Palace than Crnac did? How many such opportunities did Idah spurn? In reality, Crnac is not the replacement for anyone. In Knapper's words, he's "a very exciting talent ........ a young player who will need time to adapt to his new surroundings, team-mates and style of play, but [who] we believe [can] have success here in both the medium and long term. He is a real asset that we feel we can develop into a player for the highest level." Don't criticise him for not being what he isn't intended to be.
Likewise, harping on about how much we paid for him (which should anyway read "reportedly"), is a deliberate, and quite unnecessary evocation of past instances of large sums spent on players who turned out to be poor signings.There is absolutely no justification for thinking any such thing about Crnac after just ten testing days in which, as Suffolk says, force of circumstance has seen him thrown in at the deep end.
And then there's the contrasting enthusiasm for Schwartau, who "looks more positive and committed than Crnac" and "seems to offer more in spite of his young age". It would be surprising if Schwartau didn't immediately appear more at home on the pitch, being Danish, having developed in the Danish league, and being already familiar with Thorup and the style of play. Prior to coming on on Saturday he had played only those 30 mins at Selhurst Park, so was fresh, and had the bonus of having his friend Slimane alongside him, able to impart advice based on experience of England and English football. Of all the youngsters we have signed, I'd say Crnac is facing the greatest challenge in terms of adaptation. Praising Schwartau's contributions in his two appearances is fine, but using him as a stick to beat Crnac with is simply not justified.

 

[RiverEndRick]

This is obviously an emotional issue for you Robbie. I hope Knapper is right about Crnac but until we see it on the pitch I remain concerned. This is not a criticism, it's an assessment and that will change as performances change. We saw what happened last season when Sargent was injured and I'm glad that we now have two options as well as Barnes should that happen again.

 

[1950canary]

This is obviously an emotional issue for you Robbie. I hope Knapper is right about Crnac but until we see it on the pitch I remain concerned. This is not a criticism, it's an assessment and that will change as performances change. We saw what happened last season when Sargent was injured and I'm glad that we now have two optio, if ns as well as Barnes should tha,t happen again.

I'm afraid I have to side with Robbie on this one Rick. On the day we signed him you referred to him as a ' sizeable gamble ' who might prove to be a waste of money like some others in the past and both times he has appeared you have singled him out for fault. If the reported figures are correct he was, financially and role, a direct replacement for Idah, who over several seasons produced nothing and we have to accept that others, in and near the game rate him highly. Finally, if 34 yo 6 goals in 35 games Barnes is the replacement for Sargent god help us!!

 

[RiverEndRick]

I'm afraid I have to side with Robbie on this one Rick. On the day we signed him you referred to him as a ' sizeable gamble ' who might prove to be a waste of money like some others in the past and both times he has appeared you have singled him out for fault. If the reported figures are correct he was, financially and role, a direct replacement for Idah, who over several seasons produced nothing and we have to accept that others, in and near the game rate him highly. Finally, if 34 yo 6 goals in 35 games Barnes is the replacement for Sargent god help us!!

What I actually said was:

"According to TransferMarkt Crnac is a striker who can also play out wide on either side. At 20, this would seem to be a sizable gamble given the money involved. He could be great or he could be another Strihavka, although that that was a loan deal."

Obviously I hope he turns out to be great, but I was genuinely surprised that we would spend £8.5m on a player given the state of our finances, which you had on many occasions expressed considerable concern about.

 

[1950canary]

What I actually said was:

"According to TransferMarkt Crnac is a striker who can also play out wide on either side. At 20, this would seem to be a sizable gamble given the money involved. He could be great or he could be another Strihavka, although that that was a loan deal."

Obviously I hope he turns out to be great, but I was genuinely surprised that we would spend £8.5m on a player given the state of our finances, which you had on many occasions expressed considerable concern about.

I would have had extreme concerns about our finances if we had just bought him as an extra but, as I said, the money and position in the squad was covered by the sale of of Idah. In actual fact we seem to have made a decent profit out of the transfers and decent savings on the wage bill when you add in the players we let go at the end of last season which is as well when we have got to be self sufficient. I am sure you do hope he does turn out to be a success - it just seemed that you weren't prepared to give him any slack when he had only been here a few days before being thrown in with a new side, Country and league.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Another season another pointless go nowhere circular argument with Robby to endure

 

[RiverEndRick]

Well, let's wait and see how Crnac develops and for the record, I think Celtic grossly overpaid for Idah. As for the transfer window overall, Knapper seems to have done very well:

INS & OUTS:
Amankwah Forson £4m..van Hooijdonk
José Córdoba CB £3m........Gibson
Ben Crisene LB/LM.............Batth
Callum Doyle LB/CB...........Giannoulis
Ante Crnac S/WLR £8.5m..McCallum
Oscar Schwartau SS £2m..Sara £20m+
Anis Ben Slimane CM<L...Idah £8.5m+
Kaide Gordon WR 19<L....Kamara£4.5m
.............................................Tzolis £3m
.............................................Rowe £3m>L

Our only prior indication of Knapper's transfer prowess was van Hooijdonk, but he seems to have done very well in the end. Forson and Slimane look like having some chance of filling the hole left by Sara, Córdoba that of Gibson and Crnac and Schwartau for Idah. Two good LB options have been added and the last minute arrival of Gordon on loan from Liverpool further eases the pain from the loss of Rowe. Savings on wages are another bonus.

 

[Canary Rob]

Another season another pointless go nowhere circular argument with Robby to endure

Now now Dunc behave

I think the problem with this, as with most of the other arguments to be honest, is that if you look closely at the detail it’s more about a misunderstanding of what each other have written that gets blown out of proportions.

RER will correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s saying that Crnac won’t come good or we should write him off or we shouldn’t have bought him if he needed time etc etc. I think RER’s just saying he didn’t have a great game and has a lot of room for improvement. And by contrast (again, correct me if I’m wrong) I don’t think Robbie’s saying Crnac had a great game.

So it’s really an argument without anything at odds…

 

[RiverEndRick]

I think the problem with this, as with most of the other arguments to be honest, is that if you look closely at the detail it’s more about a misunderstanding of what each other have written that gets blown out of proportions.

RER will correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s saying that Crnac won’t come good or we should write him off or we shouldn’t have bought him if he needed time etc etc. I think RER’s just saying he didn’t have a great game and has a lot of room for improvement. And by contrast (again, correct me if I’m wrong) I don’t think Robbie’s saying Crnac had a great game.

So it’s really an argument without anything at odds…

Spot on Rob. Every game I hope to see some indications that Crnac is living up to the potential Knapper and Thorup see in him. There have been glimpses at times but IMO not enough to to get a clear indication of what he can achieve soon or long term. As Robbie said, Sargent also struggled when he first arrived but his competitiveness and workrate justified his place in the lineup. I don't yet see that in Crnac, but I do see it in Schwartau in the games he has played in so far. I didn't really think that expressing concern would be seen as being critical.

 

[zogean_king]

When I made my point about Crnac it was on an occasion where we really needed him to run back as there was imminent danger on his side. I will stick with the hope that that sort of awareness and willingness to get back will be drilled into him. Obviously I want him to be a success, but maybe he will be another Sargent and be a long haul, Sargent couldn't hit a barn door from 3 paces first season we panic now if he goes down!

 

[carrowcanario]

I wonder if Sargent improve as a result of working with Barnes.

 

[zogean_king]

I wonder if Sargent improve as a result of working with Barnes.

I do think that and his time as understudy to Pukki, he could see the movement and how (with his greater physique than Pukki) he could cause lots of problems to defenders.