As Cym pointed out, there is CCTV and other technology that allows clubs to prosecute racists. This has already been used to prosecute Spurs fans who were convicted of racial and homophobic abuse against Sol Campbell at Portsmouth. The trouble is that UEFA across Europe have either denied that racism is happening or tried to pass of excuses and paltry solutions to it. Their response has allowed it to fester into the problem it is today . .hence we see an AC Milan player walking off the pitch and the game is abandoned.
If you are suggesting that the problem has been increasing then you would be wrong. It is taking more notice and coverage, but overall incidents have decreased throughout the years. In Eastern Europe it has increased at the club level because there are more foreign players these days, but the problem was there in international games all along. Thing is, western countries have passed some of the phases these countries are going through now (not so long ago either.) And unlike Eastern European countries they've actually had the benefit of interacting with other races and cultures for decades/centuries in their daily lives. There was no economic reason for emigrants to go to these poor EE countries. Some people there can reach adulthood before they see someone of another race in "real life." You are expecting a group's sensitivities to change overnight for what took decades in your own countries, and that is not realistic. That is not to say that I'm promoting moral relativism, but it's about time some of you here get off your moral high horse. Things will get better with time... drastic measures that would isolate these countries in the sport will do nothing to speed up the situation improving. The kind of economic and cultural isolation, and restriction of individual liberties is a big part of why they are behind already. Financial punishment will do plenty to speed up the process, the rest is up to time. IMO, punishment with games behind closed doors will do enough. Let the clubs individually decide how they deal with their fan-base, whether bans based on CCTV footage, or on-the-spot booting out, etc. ... Once the no-audience games start hitting the revenues the clubs will figure out the best methods that work for them. No need for FIFA/UEFA/regulators to impose any particular method. They just lay out the punishments for various offenses and the clubs can figure out the best way that works for their fan base to reduce the incidents.
That is actually an incredibly patronising and misinformed view to hold about Eastern European countries and makes a massive assumption that emigration is only about Africans and Asians that migrated to Western Europe and the USA. As for that moral high horse, I'd say you're do a good job of riding a top it now.
I'm patronizing toward a region I'm from. Makes perfect sense. I made no assumption about Africans and Asians in particular. But most of the 'well reported' accidents are about monkey chants and such when it comes to EE countries. I don't think the abuse Serbs throw to Croats (and vice versa) in club games, or Russians to Polish (or vice versa), or many of the other ethnic-hatred type abuse make much news in the west. How so, and what does that quoted bit have anything to do with it?
No it doesn't. It just makes it patronising still. And there follows the rest of your debate, to assume that Serbs racially abusing Croats, or Turks racially abusing Greeks is any less important than Blacks from Western countries being racially abused is flawed. You complain of others needing to get off their moral high horse, but to say that these countries are 'behind' due to 'cultural isolation' displays exactly the same blinkered mentality that you're trying to flag up.
Can't you ever argue without false pretense? I assumed none of those things, you didn't reply to my question above. And yes inter-ethnic abuse is implicitly less important to the media than racial abuse. Pointing that out doesn't mean I think it should be. It just is. 'Racism' is a quite specific term.
Again, false pretense. I didn't mean they are behind in some general term. I was talking about reception of "others" and racism. They are at a disadvantage because they have had a lot less interaction with say African and Asian origin people. Expecting them at any point in time to have the same sensitivities as Western people who've interacted with a variety of races and ethnicities for decades in their daily lives is unrealistic.
The answer to your question is in my previous comment and the point is that inter-ethnic racial abuse is exactly the same problem for UEFA to deal with in the game. It's got nothing do to with cultural ******ation which you patronisingly accuse these countries of.
What the ****? Where have I said any of that? Can you actually ****ing read or does distorting someone's post just make it easier to 'argue'?
Again, emigration and cultural difference is not just about blacks and asians moving to western countries in the same way that racism is not just about blacks and asians. Jews and religious, inter ethnic race hate is just as much a problem in football as 'monkey chants'
I say the eastern bloc was culturally isolated, and to you that means I said "culturally ******ed"? That you are a moderator here is an absolutely pathetic indication of the state this board is in.
I'm not saying that you were contending it, I'm saying that's you were framing the argument too narrowly. It's as relevant as people making monkey chants.
This whole page is full of incorrect paraphrases of my post. And you do this pretty consistently too, in almost every thread. Next up will be the timely introduction of a conspiracy theory I guess. I'll show myself out before that.
Thank **** for that. . Hopefully now there will be no need for pages and pages of going around in circles like that other thread, because my god that was tedious.
Anyway. . .The point for UEFA is that racism / prejudice needs to be tackled not just from a Western European centric view that somehow only affects Blacks and Asians, but wherever race / ethnicity / religion is abused. Eastern European countries are as culturally diverse, given their proximity to Russia, the Middle east and Asia as any Western European countries that have had migration from Africa and the Indian sub Continent. The issue of racism is as diverse as the melting pot of cultures that is Europe itself. It's not an easy task for UEFA, but it's one that they so far seem to have completely shirked.
Now, now, calm down. Lets all just agree that we dont want racism in the game or society as a whole. It doesnt matter if its against black, asian, eastern european, or whoever, its just wrong. As I said in a comment about Adebeyor recently on here, I just hate him for who he is, it doesnt make any difference what colour, creed, religion or anything else he is. The colour of his shirt is more important thatn the colour of his skin.
